Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Bowhunting So what are you guys afraid of?

There was a WI Conservation Congress Meeting Last night ( April 11) and the question was about allowing any one to use a crossbow to hunt deer with in WI Now only disabled and folks over 65 can. Needless to say it was voted down in my county 43 No and 2 Yes I was one of the Yes ones State wide the Vote was:
2,501 Yes
5,681 No

A guy in our local meeting made the assine statements that crossbows were only a weapon of war never a hunting weapon? Well DUH how about bows and guns both have been used as a weapon of war and the Engish Long bow Archers were pretty darn effective.
Another made the claim that deer could be shot at 100 yards with them Now anyone knowing that the crossbow is a 40 yards and under weapon no matter what the make or model would have to laugh at this stupid statement. Yea I suppose folks have tried as they have with bows also and a bow might have a better chance as the arrow is heavier to retain some energy with crossbows expecially the ones shooting a shorter arrow or bolt the energy drops off quicker at longer ranges but are effective under normal bow ranges.

Others said that the deer had a better chance with a bow as you had to draw it back therefore showing movement and giving the deer a chance well duh you have movement when you shoulder a crossbow or a gun.

Bottom line is fellas it shoots a arrow with a bow that is horizontal instead of vertical but still shoots a arrow or bolt if you wish but some of the new crossbows use arrows as the nocks are the same as regular arrows.

Some one said well it was unfair because a crossbow could use a scope yea so can bows along with red dots and very fancy pin and peep combinations with fiber optics and without.

Todays fancy compound bows with the really precise aiming systems and the use of releases that aid in the holding back the string with less fatigue along with bows with 80% let off put the newer bows and bow accessories right into the relm of the crossbow except for the stock and being already cocked. The accuracy is there the power is there and the ease of use is there so why the cry that the crossbow is a "evil" weapon and not right for every one/ Another said that if crossbows could be used than no one would use bows anymore well I kinda doubt that there will always be folks who perfer bows. SO what are you guys afraid of???

Oh by the way I have bow hunted for years and have been very successful at it. I switched to crossbow 2 years ago because I could be cause I have a class A disabled permit to hunt in WI. Having used both I cannot see what the big deal is as the crossbow is really no more effective than a bow is. They both have their plus'es and Minus'es but they still downrange act the same with folks that know how to shoot their choice or weapons. Some mistakenly think you cannot miss with a crossbow well wake up time folks you can miss with a crossbow for the same reasons you do with a bow!

I'm just starting this year too bow hunt.........was watching a hunting show and they were hunting havalinas with a draw lock bow...got me interested......found out you can use these during rifle season but not bow season......same with a cross bow.........I bought a compound bow with a 65% let off instead.....alot of fun.......as for what I'm afraid of? that's easy.......THE WIFE!!!!!

I don't have a problem with people hunting with crossbows as long as it's not during the special early archery season.

Originally early hunting seasons were started when "primitive" weapons could actually be considered primitive. However, now some compound bows are faster than most crossbows and muzzleloaders have the same performance as a .308 Winchester. So really most archers and Muzzle loaders have gotten away from primitive weapons like flintlocks, hawkens, recurves and longbows.

That being said, I think the crossbow is an interesting weapon as it does fire a bolt with a broadhead and kills the same way an arrow does. However, because it's held like a rifle and can be cocked and prepared for firing before the game is even sighted, it removes one of the biggest challenges from taking game with a bow and arrow. Also, despite crossbows having a similar velocity to an arrow, bolts are usually heavier thus having more KE and can certainly be fired lethally at a longer distance than most archers will attempt a shot on game with a compound bow.

Since many states have extended firearms season to last several months, maybe crossbow season should coincide with early muzzle loading season or maybe crossbows should have their own special season prior to firearms but after ML.

Your response is one of many that do not know crap about crossbows! I do not mean to be disrespectfull but I mean that. Crossbows are 40 yard weapons at the max. Crossbow bolts or arrows are the same spline as regular arrows only shorter and stiffer. I shoot a 2117 or a 2216 bolt/arrow in mine. When I used a bow I used a 2117 arrow. In fact I buy used arrows in good shape at rummage sales and make my crossbow bolts/arrows out of them. If you have ever shot a crossbow you will see just like a bow they shoot flatter at close range but as they get out in distance you have to make adjustments for elevation just like you do with a bow. Your comment about your bow challenges by drawing the bow does not cut it as a cross bow is moved too from the rest position to your shoulder so movement is also involved and every one talks about deer jumping the string well crossbows are a bit more noisier than a bow and harder to silence than a bow so actually the bow is more silent than the crossbow. Your comments about the arrows being heavier is not really true as they are shortened arrows which give them stiffer spline but as far as actual weight goes they are lighter as they are shorter which is one of the reasons they are not a longer range weapon.


Though I was a bow hunter now crossbow hunter it seems to me that bow hunters are the most selfish group in the world. They do not want any one to hunt during "their season" and even get ticked off when bird hunters share the same woods. They do not want rifle hunters to have early seasons like the T zone hunts in WI or Early Muzzle loader seasons. I am not bragging but I have killed lots of deer with a bow it is not that hard even being disabled now it still is not that difficult. So I see no reason why bow hunters should be upset about a other method of shooting a arrow same sport same rules apply same results only thing different is the bowhunters who want every thing there way. Ever hit a limb or a tree with either your bow or your arrow while hunting and mess up the shot? Well guess what that applys to crossbows too and they have a lot of the same challanges to over come as with a bow while hunting. I think that a lot of bow hunters need to educated them selves to what and what not a crossbow can and cannot do before passing judgement.

jh45gun, well said on both posts. Most of the complaints that arise from bow hunters concerning crossbows stem from lack of knowledge or from selfishness. One thing that you failed to mention. Carrying one through the woods is like dragging a pair of jumper cables. It will hang up on everything. miles

Like JH, I too now hunt with a crossbow because I have to, not because I want to. Having experience with both, I must say that the bow hunter has the advantage. Crossbows are almost impossible to stalk hunt with and difficult to sit in a stand with. Seems simple but try it sometime and you will see what I mean. The only advantage I have found is that they are easier for the inexperienced to shoot and require less practice to be good with. Might bring a few more hunters into the sport, which if you look at long term trends is a good thing. JMHO TM

Oh yeah, forgot to add. Alabama opened the archery season to crossbows this year with no restrictions and loads of bad press about wholesale slaughter of deer, masses of Bubba's in the field not knowing what to do, injured "good" archery hunters when the Bubbas shot long distance at anything that moved......... Guess what happened? Nothing. By the end of the season, you heard nothing else. No horror stories at all.

Kinda like the argument that must issue pistol permits will lead to an Old West mentality and people will die! Just does not happen. Same with crossbows. Problems just seem to never happen, once it is allowed. Will there be problems with a few people? Sure but no more than before. Because THERE IS NO REAL ADVANTAGE TO USING A CROSSBOW! Once people learn that, the uproar will die down. JMHO TM

Good points guys on the disadvantages of crossbows unfortunatly you know how it is folks only hear what they want to hear. Jim

IT'S ALL ABOUT MONEY! Manufactures and dealers want the Xgun legalized so they can line their pockets. They don't give a tinkers damn about what it might do to the sport of bowhunting.

If you've got a disabled permit then why and hell do you want EVERYBODY to shoot a crossbow??? Do you sell em jh45gun ??....me thinks so.

I'm tired of hearing this crap about bowhunters being selfish. That's a ploy I hear all the time from Xgun advocates. Im protecting my hard earned bow hunting season from scavengers... that's what I call em,... they don't give a damn about bowhunting... only the almighty $$$$$

Of course there is!

They have disadvantages, too, but their advantages are undeniable. I wouldn't want one, but then, I wouldn't want a compound bow, either.

A crossbow requires far less practice in order to become proficient in it's use. That is a HUGE advantage for most people, right there.

A crossbow totally does away with the drawing motion. Less motion is good. It is like a rifle in that regard. You wouldn't argue that a bow has an advantage over a rifle because it requires more motion, would you?

A powerful crossbow can be aimed, and aimed, and aimed and then fired ACCURATELY (without a case of the shakes), even if the shooter is a 98 pound computer programmer.

Having said all that, I have no problem with allowing the use of crossbows on a trial basis, during the regular bow season, by anyone who wants to use them (within common sense parameters). If it turns out that the deer heard is decimated because of them, then we can outlaw them at that point in time for good reason, but I won't condemn them until I see some actual, real world results that justify doing so.

In-line muzzleloaders are a horse of a different color, IMO.

Trying to save a season for you and people that hunt exactly like you do is not selfish? Has to be you way. miles

Spoken exactly like someone who has never had to hunt with one. I will give you that there are advantages, but the advantages far outweigh them. That is from experience, not what I think it would be like to hunt with one. Think not drawing a crossbow is a major advantage when deer are close? Try turning your bow sideways and see how well you can raise it with deer around. With a regular bow, you can usually lean behind a tree, bush,etc. to draw. If not, at least you have your body behind you to partially obscure the movement. "With a crossbow, it is sideways and creates a large horizontal movement when raised. From experience, I would guesstimate I get busted twice as much raising a crossbow, as I ever did drawing a regularbow.

Guess you could just always hold the crossbow up. yeah, if you looked like Arnold you might but it is not practical.

Also, try sitting in a stand with a crossbow cocked with 150 to 200 pounds of pressure. Where exactly do you hold it? There is no comfortable position I have ever found nor have any of the other crossbow hunters I have talked too. Not in to sitting, try carrying your regular bow sideways through the woods, cocked. As someone else said it catches on everything, again with 150 to 200 pounds of pressure on it. A real comfortable (not) way to hunt.

Also, as explained earlier, they do not shoot as far as a regular compound and in my experience are not quite as accurate. I will take shots to 40/45 yards with a compound but limit myself to no more than 35 with a crossbow. That is with an Excalibur, which is rated one of the most accurate in the game.

As for deer being decimated (which by the way means only 10% are killed) that is what everyone screamed about in Alabama before the season. But guess what? The world did not end and it appears no more deer than normal were killed. Guess that magic wand the crossbows are supposed to be just did not work to well in the dense Southern Air. Kinda reminds me of the howls in various States about the blood bath that would follow if must issue laws for pistols passed. Of course the results were just the opposite but why let actual experience get in the way of "known" facts.

Finally, yes, they are easier for the average Joe to shoot. If you read the numbers about declining hunters nationwide, I really do not see how getting a few more people in the sport is a bad thing. Especailly when some of those folks will find that a compound or traditional bow is more fun/accurate/easier to hunt with. I also read where more and more areas are being over populated with deer. Me thinks we could use more hunters but that is just me and I could be wrong.

As for crossbows, all I have is 5 years of actual experience to go on. I had the papers all along to allow me to hunt with one but spent $1375 last fall on a top of the line Mathews and accessories to try one last time to get away from carrying a crossbow. After just a few weeks, I had to let it go as my shoulders/back were killing me. But if I could, I would have dumped the crossbow in a heartbeat because it's disadvantages far outweigh any advantages it has. But that is just based on experience and probably does not compete with what you "know" to be true. TM

RWL99, Just curious what type wood you use to make your bow from, what animal sinew you use for string and what minereal for the heads. Or does "your" bowseason involve some other kind of bow? TM

Travelingman,

No need to get your panties in a knot, dude. Did you read my post in it's entirety? I'm not against the use of crossbows. Not even a little bit.

I felt that your statement claiming that "THERE IS NO REAL ADVANTAGE TO USING A CROSSBOW! " was misleading, so I called you on it. Don't take it so hard.


True. I have never HAD TO hunt with one, but I did hunt with one for several years, in my very non-politically-correct youth. For fun. Thought it was pretty cool. Never tried to kill a deer with it (Dad wouldn't have approved), but did manage to stack up the squirrels and cottontails. Even shot a coon with it, once.

Squirrel hunting, I would sit in one of my many carefully constructed, permanent ground blinds (had a lot of time on my hands). Always had a forked stick driven into the ground in front of me, inside the blind, to support the forend of the crossbow. Just had to make sure that it was pointed in a safe direction. (Feel free to try that for yourself, I never got a patent on it.)

We (the neighborhood kids and I) hunted with recurve bows, too, but the crossbow had it's advantages over the recurve in a blind, or so it seemed to me, at the time. It allowed me to easily shoot from a sitting position (via folding stool), which helped much with both concealment and comfort.

Cottontail hunting was most often a matter of following the beagles (we had 3) til they had one surrounded in a brush pile. We would jump on the pile to keep the little bugger moving around until someone could get a killing shot 'twixt the branches. Now there's the makings of a fine hunting video! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Good times.

The crossbow truly does suck for still hunting. No argument there. That's just not it's niche. But if the crossbow was as miserable and impractical to use as you make it sound, healthy young men wouldn't be buying them, using them, and calling it fun.


Thanks for taking the time to enlighten us, but your definition is a bit antiquated. It was the original meaning eons ago, but in common usage today, it refers to the killing of any large proportion of a group.

Definition of "decimate"

Have a good one.

Walker, Your right, I did have my panties in a wad over a salesman at work doing something I specifically told him not to do and then he goes ahead and does it and then tries to blame it on me. Really mad because we are down in Mexico with other meetings to attend and I will have to wait until we get back in the States to fully explain to him just how bad he screwed up. (He will be hitting the road) Replyed to you just after it came up and took a lot of my frustration out on you. No excuse, I was wrong. Just wanted to let you know why and give a sincere apology.

You might also note a little frustration, which I believe IS warranted, with people that give a knee jerk reaction about crossbows, when they have no experience. I did miss your suggestion for a trial, which is an excellent one. Alabama went whole hog, with a lot of folks kicking and screaming but I have not heard a thing since the season got underway. Makes me suspect there was not the issues people raved about but then I was pretty sure there would not be.

Since you did hunt small game with a crossbow, I am curious if you feel you took any more game by using a crossbow versus another type? That seems to be most peoples fear, that crossbow hunters will have some kind of unfair advantage. Having hunted with both, I still say it is harder to take a whitetail (at least in Alabama/Tennessee) where I hunt, with a crossbow. Not a lot harder but harder. Certainly not easier as most people seem to think. Wonder what your impression is?

The other fear seems to be that a bunch of outlaws will come into the sport. While possible, I have seen far more outlaws with guns, doing road hunting, spotlighting, etc... Bows of any type just do not seem to lend themselves to these type activities.

Ah well, now I have to go down and meet the Ahole salesguy and go on calls today. Again, I do aplogise for taking my frustrations out on you and the board and ask your forgiveness. TM

No I do not sell them! I just think that if some one wants to use one they should be able to. How would you like it if some group said you could not use your bows or guns or muzzle loaders???HUH you might have a different attitude too.
As far as the selfish remark goes if you keep hearing it maybe you ought to take that into consideration and figure there may be something to it! Like I said I have bow hunted for years I started in 1967 as a teenager. So there is nothing about bow hunting that I have not seen and I will say it again Many bow hunters do not want to share the woods with anyone and figure they own the woods. As a bow hunter that saddens me as it gives a lot of folks who are not like that a bad name for the actions of a few but very vocal group.

Good post travlingman1 and you hit the money on the disadvantages. Most folks who badmouth crossbows never have shot one or even held one but figure they are so deadly. As you stated a crossbow is a 40 yard and under weapon and not as accurate as some bows but it all depends on the user also. Crossbows are not just pick up and shoot the arrows have to be tuned to the xbow just like a regular bow as with the broadheads they need to be tuned also. Further more when you get done hunting you just cannot uncock it but have to discharge it to release the pressure. There are pros and cons with crossbows my attitude is if folks want to use them they should be able to with out some rival bow group peeing in the wind about it. Jim

[quote]RWL99, Just curious what type wood you use to make your bow from, what animal sinew you use for string and what minereal for the heads. Or does "your" bowseason involve some other kind of bow? TM [/quointe]




I don't know what that has to do with the price of beans but just to satisfy your curiosity, my bow is made of laminated wood and fiberglass 57#, 0% let off. My string is 450+, arrows are carbon and broadheads are stainless steel. I've bowhunted big game with a bow since 1955 and I've never owned a compound.

I have a friend that is handicapped and hunts with a crossbow. I've shot it and it is NOT limited to 40yd's. ANYONE could shoot a deer with that thing from 60yd's, and that includes my 90 year old mother.

Here in Michigan we have around 300,000 bowhunters that enjoy a two month season excluding the two week gun season in November. Out bow season was started in 1937 and it is steeped in history and tradition. Fred Bear was a charter member of the Michigan BowHunters which is our state bow hunting organazation founded in 1946

In 1994 we allowed disabled hunters to use a crossbow in the regular archery season. In 2002 we allowed crossbows to be used by anyone during the regular gun season. I served on the Ad Hoc committee that made that ruling at that time.

As I said before and I will repeat, the main reason there is such a big push to legalize crossbows in the regular archery season is the money to be made by the manufactures and dealers. They look at states like Michigan and Wisconsin with their high numbers of bowhunters and drool at the profits to be made if crossbows were brought into those states.

It is unadulterated greed, pure and simple that drives these people. They do not care what degenerating effects the crossbow may have on archery bowhunting. They know that it is human nature to think easier is better. Bow hunting was founded on the concept that, "we do this not because it is easy but because it is hard". That is the attraction to bowhunting,.... REAL bowhunting.

I'll admit that todays compound bow and their attached gadgets are not what our founders had in mind when they created a special season for archery. If there was any chance of restricting some of todays modern equiptment I would be all for it, but It will never happen. I see allowing crossbows into states like Michigan as the final straw and would be the end of bowhunting as we know it. So I will fight to the last breath in my body to keep that from happening.

jh45gun,

You USED to be a bowhunter, by your own admission you are now a crossgunner.

You may or may not sell cross bows we only have your word on that. Since you have a permit to use one, what is your beef? Why do you want to legalize them for EVERYBODY? Doesn't make sense to me, what's in it for you? Curious minds want to know....not that you'd tell us. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I'm glad you brought up the uncocking thing. A crossbow is carried around in the woods cocked, locked and ready to fire. All that needs to be done is to slip off the safety (which could very well happen accidently) I cringe at the thought of walking into my stand in the early pre dawn with my camo and no orange and haveing a crossbowman check me out through his scope pointing his cocked crossbow at me.

Crossbows are fine in the gun season or in bow season if you are disabled but otherwise ....NO

Most 150 lbs draw crossbows I'm familiar with use a 20-22 inch 2219 shaft that weights 13.7 grains per inch. This is 50-75 grains heavier than the arrows I'm using for my 27.5 inch draw bow.

Also, your crossbow might be quieter with a heavier bolt.

This website probably isn't the best one to get views opposite of yours as this is primarily a gun fanatic chat forum. Some of the websites dedicated to archery might give you a better debate.

Regards,
Sam