Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Rimfires Why 22mag when 17HMR is so much better?

North61, I'm thinking your wish for a light Hornet might be the Ruger 77/22H.

Close but..too big and heavy. I want a 22Hornet repeater wilderness packing rifle at about 3 pounds. I have an M6 in 22H but it isn't a repeater and has a silly 410 with it.

While we are at it give me a 1-10" twist so I can shoot heavier bullets. A 60 grain Nosler Partition at 2200fps would be a great load for edible game and even caribou in a pinch.

Wow I have been following this post its really brought out some interesting points and opinions. I have a few 17s they dont make sense to me but I see guys who have used them WAY more that I will ever that carries weight with me.

Hank

Don't forget to consider the BS factor, anonymous posters making claims for stuff that only happened between their brains and their fingers hitting their keyboards, with an occasional GOOGLE search thrown in for good measure.

Jeff

You might need a long chat with Melvin Forbes...and a bottle of whiskey. Really good whiskey.

I have both 17HMR and .22 mag. The 17 is a good 175 yard crow rifle but beyond that I don't have much use for it. When you get into stuff like woodchucks and coons there's no doubt the .22 mag. is the more effective round.

I've cleanly killed a couple deer, a few dogs, several tame and one wild hog,a few head of cattle, lotsa coons and grinners, and hundreds of tree rats with the 22mag, see no need to try a .17 wanta be centerfire,,,, ya the .17 is a nice looking little round but it lacks in the versatility of the .22mag. oh ya use the solids for tree rats the impact is the same as the hollow points for me, both winchester silver box, both shoot way sub moa.

Several State F&G Departments use, or have used, the Ruger 10/22 Magnums to do herd reduction work. A CO told me that he'd killed a couple hundred whitetail does during the winter when they are herded up using a 10/22 Magnum and Winchester/Olin 45 grain DynaPoints.

Jeff

I never saw the need for the 17 since I have a Model 61 in 22 magnum and a Model 43 in Hornet..both have been well used over the years and are still going strong...

The wind gave me fits with my .17 so I sold it and just got me an ol Ruger 10/22.

Sorry, I didn't bother reading every post to this point but as I see it...........:D

It's impossible to gain killin power buy cutting the weight of the bullet in half. So I'll still say that the .22M has an advantage on critter a little on the large size. In other words the .17hmr is not gonna be a better coon and fox than a .22M. As good? IMO no. But I will state that the .17HMR does seem to be inherently more accurate than the .22M with Savage rifles producing dime sized groups at 100 yards while .22M rifles I've been around having trouble shooting MOA. Been there, done that. Also the flat shooting little round is a definite aid when shooting bitty targets beyond 100 yards.

So if you are a target shooter......17HMR.
If you are after Prairie Dogs, Starlings and Ground Squirrels out to 150+ yards......17HMR.
If you are a ground hog, coon or fox guy out to 100 yards......22Mag.

It's all in what you want the gun for.

CB

You are mistaken sir. The energy released on impact is a function of both velocity and weight. So if you boost up velocity and reduce bullet weight you can still deliver way more energy on target. I have seen lots of ground squirrels hit by 22mag and 17HMR and the latter does a much better job of killing. A large part of this the explosive effect of the 17HMr on impact.

A 22mag might be better in cases where you need penetration into the animal in order to damage vital organs. On the vast majority of small mammals, include coons and fox, a 17HMR will be more effective.

Maybe "killin power" was the wrong words to use as you can certainly increase the explosiveness on critters of less stature buy increasing speed and using bullets less hardy. But the same things that creates explosive results on a prairie dog can be a detriment for larger critters. Kinda like using lightly constucted varmint bullets in a centerfire is not a good idea for deer hunting. The same can be said when you use too solid of a bullet like FMJ's on game, again not a good idea.

But for it's case size, lighter/smaller/lesser construction doesn't = bigger critters.

An 85g .243 slug is HALF the weight of a 170 30-30 bullet.

And YET which gun is a better 400 yard deer/antelope rifle cartridge?
Hint- it's damn sure not the 30-30.

Actual Terminal ballistics of a rifle round do NOT stop at some arbitrary bullet weight You "think" is too small. Lot's of other factors such as bullet shape and construction muzzle velocity come into play.

If your bullet weight theory were actually true, the dead 'yote lung shot with a 20g 17HMR game point at 120 yards(Shown half way down the Rimfire central thread below) would still be alive. And the 30-30 would be a more popular long range deer and antelope gun that the "puny" .243.

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370398&page=2

I have 22mag,& 5mm. MY daughter killed 3 hogs with 5mm from 50 to 110 yds, hogs weighted 60 lbs -135 lbs .Also shoot 30 lb tom turkeys.Nothing has run or flown off in 7 yrs of hunting. yes i have 17 and in MOA, 17 can not do that. Look into chuck hawks for specs. just my nickels worth

Now you're just argueing for the sake of argueing. Let's compare apples to apples here........ your comparison pretty well sucks a$$. Which is the better 400 yard deer gun a 85gr .243 or a 150gr .308? Same case but a smaller, lighter bullet. Sure as hell isn't the .243.

- 150gr .308 Winchester @ 300 yards: 9" drop, 1500lbs of energy, 8" drift.
- 85gr .243 @ 300 yards: 7" of drop, 1000lbs energy, 9" wind drift.

Even with slightly more drop the .308 is packing 50% more punch at 300 and at YOUR 400 yards it packs almost 100% more. It's a personal desision weather or not either is a 400 yard deer gun but the .243 is clearly the weaker of the 2.

Then you have to throw in bullet construction. What happens to your 400 yard deer slaying .243 when you insert a varmint bullet instead of a game bullet?

Now let's look what happens when you move up to elk? At any range the .243 is clearly inferior.

As for weather or not the .17mhr will kill a coyote....... yes, it will kill a coyote. It will also kill deer but that doesn't make it a deer round or better than a .22M or a centerfire. A .22LR will kill a coyote too but it doesn't make it a coyote round or better than a .22M either.

When you take THE SAME CASE, LIGHTEN THE CONSTRUCTION of the bullet TO THE POINT OF MAKING IT EXPLOSIVE ON A 3LBS RODENT, reduce its diameter and weight you DO NOT end up with a cartridge capable of taking larger game than it's brother with a heavier constructed, larger diameter and heavier weight bullet.

CB

For the record, I actually agree with your statement posted elsewhere that no rimfire is actually a good Coyote round.

My point is, if that's all you have on hand, it will do the job cleanly with proper bullets and shot placement. It's not just about bullet weight.

BTW, My 30-30 vs .243 argument was for DEER cartridges. But your counter arugment proves my point. On DEER the .243 with properly constructed bullets is as effective as any .308. But heck, 6mm slugs don't bounce off Elk ,either. Wayne Van Zwoll doesn't think it's too small.Wayne has killed more Elk cleanly that most folks will ever see. Watch this short video for the Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation on recommended Elk rounds- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWi1wrsDZ6w

But back to the 17HMR..

If you'd care to look around, 17HMR slugs come in tougher controlled expanding 20g HP and 17g FMJ designs. So there goes your "bullet construction" argument..

In terms the ability to kill cleanly, a 20g 17HMR slug will kill, ANY 'yote on this planet just as dead as any other rimfire round with the same placement(see Rim fire central link above). None of them are ideal. Just adequate under certain circumstances.

There are pictures all over the net with clean 'yote kills with a 17HMR. With a smaller slug, placement becomes critical. It just requires good marksmanship..

Here's some video footage of some wild Hogs taken in Florida with the 17 HMR and head shots. They sure look bigger than 3lbs to me

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lyoEELl007Q

Also, about 2 mintutes into this video a guy cleanly kills 3 feral goats in New Zealand Z with his 17HMR...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSPna4OjsEU&feature=related

But what they don't show on the net is all the critters that have not been taken cleanly with the .17 Hummer.....

PPosey: I have now killed 5 Badgers with my 17 HMR Rifle and all were one shot kills!
I have killed 3 Coyotes now with my 17 HMR Rifle and all were one shot kills!
I have also killed Fox, Wild Turkey, Rock Chucks and a plethora of other Varmint species with my 17 HMR - the 17 HMR simply kills way beyond what an unexperienced shooter/observer would expect!
I think it is the combined accuracy, flatter trajectory, faster bullets and faster rotating bullets that the 17 HMR has?
I don't care WHAT the reason is - I am thrilled that there is a more lethal rimfire cartridge than the 22 Magnum!
I have several ranches that only allow rimfires and on these ranches there are lots of Fox, Badgers, Jack Rabbits, Coyotes and a few Rock Chucks - the 17 HMR reigns supreme where rimfires are required.
Anyone who does not recognize the significant lethality of the 17 HMR OVER the 22 Magnums simply has not had enough trigger time with the 17 HMR!
PERIOD!
YES the 17 HMR is "so much better than the 22 Magnum"!
Legions of American Varminters "can't be wrong"!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

In your experience.

The 17HMR is a nice cartridge, but in my experience the 22 MRF just plain kills larger critter better/faster/more reliably with the common 40 and 45 grain JSP and JSP bullets. In my experience, the 17 grain plastic tip bullets are very fragile and fast opening, great for ground squirrels, pdogs, and other small lightly constructed critters, while the JHP often don't expend much, if any, and tend to drill through/through like FMJs.

Standard disclaimer; "YMMV and since my experience is mine alone, your experience is likely to be different.".

Jeff