Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters An Open Letter to Steve Hornady

In terms of price, it isn't going to benefit consumers. If they make a change, they will either 1)not make it possible for consumers to distinguish between the old and new model bullets, so that consumers will continue to unknowingly purchase the old bullets until they are gone or 2) if they do decide to make it possible to identify old and new, they will not drop the price on the old, but will just raise the price on the new. In the latter case, the consumers will have the choice of 1)paying the same price for the "old new" bullets that they didn't like as they did for the "original" bullets that they wish they still had or 2)paying more for the "new new" bullets that they really never wanted in the first place because they were happy with the "original" bullets.

I agree. It's what's called charging what the market will bear. There is no reason why the monolithic bullets cost what they do. They should in fact cost less than a regular cup and core bullet. It disgusts me that I can pay $80.00 per thou for my lead handgun bullets, and $50.00 for 50 pure copper bullets. They take the same time to manufacture, but the pure copper bullets have a "premium" label attached to them that enable the manufacturers to charge far more than they're worth (these are canadian prices by the way). This isn't one company in particular either, because "ALL" of the manufacturers charge the same for their monolithic bullets.
The kicker is that I felt that it was wise to just move to the monolithic bullets now, as British Columbia is probably going to move to the same stupid rules as California sooner rather than later due to the same stupid beurocratic bull. Once one government has gotten away with hosing the consumer, it leaves it wide open for all of the others, because there must have been a reason, in their eyes. Also, when one company gets away with charging way too much for a product, it leaves the door open for all the others.
When Barnes first started production of the X bullet, due to low production to a specialty market, development costs, and increased marketing costs; it might have cost more to make their bullets. I doubt that is the case now. And that's the same for Hornady and Nosler with their monolithic bullets. Instead of looking at the actual cost of manufacture and setting their price there, they looked at what the competition was charging, and did the same. This is a perfect example of price fixing, and I don't think that any of the current companies are above this at this time.
Mike

Mike,

I managed a high end Target grade cast lead bullet making firm from 2002- 2004. We sold a bit to Canada and there are some very important realities you simply refuse to acknowledge.

You know why mono- metal bullets cost more than regular Cup and core slugs? Well first of all, the raw materials ARE more expensive.. Mono metal bullets are MOSTLY COPPER. Copper is THREE TIMES the cost of lead. Also, with the exception of the older Barnes X type bullets most new mono metal and other premium slugs are plastic tipped. They have the same number of "parts" and processes involved in making them that a a non tipped cup and core slug would. So mono metal slugs are NOT "simpler make". Also, newer Mono metal slugs have more $$ invested in them in design R&D and new dies, manufacturing process etc.

You mentioned sales volumes and economy of scale. Most shooters DO NOT buy premium bullets.The market for "premium" bullets is still relatively small compared to the total jacketed bullet market. So, the amount of money amortized into the cost of each box of new mono metal slugs for R&D and tooling is thus higher due to their lower sales volume.

As to the pricing situation in Canada,unlike the cast lead handgun bullets you mentioned costing $80 per thousand , the US made jacketed bullets are IMPORTED.

The CAST lead handgun bullets sold in Canada are mostly likely made in your country .They are also most likely made of cheaper scrap lead alloys which cost probably 1/5 of the high grade copper and gilding metal alloys which make up most premium mono metal bullets.

Also, the tooling and equipment needed to cast bullets on a commercial level is MUCH less expensive than the tooling make precision jacketed slugs in volume to the level of quality demanded in the marketplace.. I know this for a FACT.

Once the wholesale price in US dollars is established for a box of US made jacket rifle bullets, then there is your sometimes weaker Canadian dollar, Canadian import tariffs,customs paperwork/ fees, shipping costs. At that point, you are only up to the TRUE wholesale price to a dealer/distributor in Canada. Then you must add the retail markup so your gunshops can pay their high Canadian business taxes added to that. All of which means that a box of 50 premium bullets only costing $30 here in the US will cost you $50 in Canada.

The free market IS working. If you want to find reason why US made bullets are expensive in Canada, you should look to OTTAWA - not Grand Island ,Nebraska.

OK, you want to absolutely compair apples to apples. From Wholesale sports Canada, a 100 count box of Hornady 150gr interlocks is $35.99. A 50 count box of Hornady 150gr GMX is $40.99. lead is currently $1.20LB. Copper is currently $4.20LB (both numbers rounded). If both boxes where 100 count boxes that would more than account (5 times over) for the $5.00 discrepency of the 2 bullets, but the Interlock is 100 count, and the GMX 50 count. The interlock is more difficult to manufacture; where does the extra cost come from?

In Canada, I can get 1000 Berries (American company), copper "plated" 158gr bullets for a price fully comparable to Canadian made full lead 158gr bullets ($80.00 per 1000)...........crossing the border makes no difference.

I was actually attempting to stay away from just totally bashing only Hornady, but if you insist on re-directing me to prove an irrefutable point, you are fully entitled to keep your head right up there..........I was actually using Barnes as my example.

My origonal point was that all of the companies will charge as much as they possibly can, and increase the price whenever they can; wether the increase is warranted or not.
Mike

First they thinned out the jacket on the Core-Lokt.

Then they started phasing out the Hot Cor.

Now they changed the Interlock.

Is nothing sacred?

How in the hell can you blame Hornady for what YOUR dealers charge for them in Canada?

I STAND BY my points because are valid. Your prices above prove it. You're paying $35 for 100 Interlocks that cost me $21 most places.

It's NOT Hornady's fault you live in the People's Republic of Canada!

As to you "not" bashing Hornday,that is some FUNNY stuff. You have have pretty much done that NON-STOP with your baseless "price fixing" accusations.

Also ,your continued insistence the the plain interlock is more "difficult " to make than a solid copper hollow pointed slug with a ballistic tip is pure bullschit. How the hell do you think the grooves get swaged into the sides of the GMX slugs? Devine intervention?

If you encounter a discussion you don't like, USE ANOTHER WEBSITE!

Don't forget the Speer Grand Slam change.It's no were near the same.

It astounds me the number of guys that think you need to buy $30/50 bullets to kill freakin' deer!

There's no reason in the World to not use a $0.15 or even $0.30 bullet on deer other than vanity.

Back on subject - I have to wonder if Hornady didn't screw up the Interlock to drive customers to those Ritchie Rich bullets.

There's no reason other than that that a guy should be forced to start all over testing different bullets on game. That process can take years.

Are you guys STILL talking about bullet failures that you recovered from DEAD animals??

A man decided to give sky-diving a try. His main chute failed to open. When his reserve chute opened, it failed to fully deploy. This caused the lines to become somewhat fouled. The spin caused by all of this, plus the anxiety it brought on, caused the man to evacuate from orifices at opposite ends of his digestive tract. He did reach the ground in one piece. Upon remarking to those around him that things could have perhaps gone down in a more satisfactory manner, he was asked if he had reached the ground alive and well, as that is,after all, the whole point of parachuting. Chastened by this, he quietly went home.

Profits are sacred.

With that logic, I could put a Rolls Royce emblem on my Chevy and call it a Silver Ghost because the car goes down the road. Not quite.

Consumers should complain when product quality suffers. I'm pretty sure the guy would rather his chute opened.

Once again, I failed to throw a in when I needed to. That is my point exactly.

Are you sure the grooves are swaged and not cut?

J,

My point was that the added grooves are an added step over an above making a regular cup and core Interlock.

For that matter, so is swaging a precise hollow point in a mono metal slug for expansion..

iq62:

YOU PRODUCE NO PROOF WHATSOEVER that shows the grooves or the hollow point are done with an extra step.

A-hole-o,

At least the grooves I am talking about can be SEEN by anyone with a pair of eyes. The fact they actually EXIST is obvious. As well as the hollow point and ballistics tip added to the GMX slugs vs the plain interlocks.

Like I said to your ignorant countryman, are they placed their magically? Only a complete idiot like yourself would believe the grooves were not put on the bullets by an added manufacturing step of some kind.

The claims you make of "failures" of Hornady Interlocks on game, the "price fixing" and the other imaginary , cretinous bullshit you post here is what should be prooved.

Good lord, did you design any of these bullets? You seem to be taking the arguments rather personally