Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only New Sako 85 "Black Bear" 9.3x62

Anyone see the New 2011 Sako Black Bear 9.3x62?

- short fluted barrel, barrel band swivel mount, Recknagel sights, synthetic stock, weighs 7-pounds, holds 6-rounds. Looks like a good all-rounder for about anything/anywhere.

Tell me you can't buy it state side.

I just got my semi-custom back from the smith. It'll still be more accurate than a production gun anyway.

Spot

I like dat..........

I have been looking at the same gun.... also a twin in 338 fed would not hurt... I just am afraid will will be high $$$.... but I hope not.

I sure love my 7 lb Sako 85 in 375 H&H!

Best factory rifle I've ever owned.

BCBrian

What is the barrel lengtht?

I was just at SHOT, and I can tell you it's not on their list of U.S. products for 2011.

25 inches

I want one!! Looks sweet and I love the 9.3x62 Spence

the 9.3x62 doesn't really kick with a 250 full load, so it's a good cartridge in my book.

If it holds 6 rounds it weigths 8 lbs, then add a scope = 9 lbs.

different

I really like that. Hopefully they will end up bringing a few into the US

Here is the spec sheet.

http://www.sako.fi/pdf/specs/85BlackBear.pdf

I emailed Alex at Europtics to see if he plans on trying to get any in, I will let you guys know what he says. He is a full line Sako dealer. Spence

Go to SAKO 85 web site:

http://www.sako.fi/sako85.php

Interesting that it's on the web site. It (and the Brown Bear) are not in their 2011 US catalogue at all. Makes me think it either wasn't ready in time when they printed the catalogue, which you would hope to be the case, or it won't be offered stateside. Will be interesting to find out.

Beretta sucks when it comes to logic and importing.

It sure sounds like a product destined for the U.S. market at some point. I'd be jazzin for that Black Bear if it does come stateside

If that happen I'll be pissed, but that's exactly what normally happens, make a semi custom because they're not importing and sure enough...

Bastid's

NICE!! Should be able to keep the weight at maybe a bit over 8.25lbs IF the rifle itself goes 7lbs.

6-cartridges w/270gr bullets @ just under 1/2lb
Leupold 2.5x20 (mine w/weaver rings @ 10oz)
sling and swivels (I made one @ 2 1/2oz)


Too bad I've already got 9.3x62.

Got this from Alex. No luck with the black bear coming to th US. Beretta sucks.




Hi Spence,
�
Nice to hear from you but sorry to tell you that this gun can not be had in the US.� Beretta does not import it and does not make special orders on non imported guns.

Alex Roy
www.eurooptic.com
439 Crawford Alley
Montoursville, PA 17754�
+1�570�220�3159����������

Got a relative that's in the service in Europe? Have them buy one thru the Rod & Gun club and bring it into the US on an ATF Form 6 when they rotate back stateside. From there transfer it according to your local, state and/or federal laws.

Not surprised. I was doubtful since it wasn't in the new catalogue. Although... the logic of naming rifles "black bear" and "brown bear" and skipping the North American market entirely... escapes me.

Ok the value of my semi-customer 9.3x62 sako 85 is gonna hold for a bit longer.

Keep in mind the 9.3x62 Sako 85 has been available for ever outside the us anyway.

But - not with the short barrel, the barrel sights, the fluting, the safari band, etc.

Correct BC

but mine's got a Lilja barrel that makes cloverleafs.

and it's in a McMillan edge Sako hunter pattern, with a 23" barrel. Balances like a dream, weights 8lbs with a scope and doesn't kick hardly with 250 TSX.

I couldn't be happier - I'm not changing a thing.

So your right - I don't want all that other junk.

If you ever go to college and study "Marketing" you will learn that there is a particular type of person you cannot identify with.

JW

One of those types would be people who make unwise assumptions about individuals they do not know. If you ever become an adult and study "manners" you might grasp the concept.

Thanks Kentucky I was not even going to respond. I guess I am an idiot with bad manners, my wife would agree with that. I must have wasted Uncle Sam's money getting my Nuclear and Mechanical Engineering degrees. Spence

Spence - Thanks. I deleted my last response because I misread the sequence. Responded initially because Aussie's juvenile comment was posted in response to my post. His remark is a contender for one of the all-time dumbest things posted here.

Re. Carter, he remains a great embarrassment to all of us old ex-squids. And I'll forgive your former service in Marine Infantry. No one is perfect.

pretty sure you ll can import one from Canada.

Anyone know abourt how much it costs to import a gun from Canada?? Thanks SPence

I handled a 9.3x66 version of this rifle at the pre-SHOT range day. Actually, I tried to buy it from the guy in charge of Sako's vendor shoot operation on the spot when we were tearing down for the day. He said it was the only one like it and he couldn't sell it to me, but the gun would be imported before the end of 2011.

We'll see...

It is much better in person, btw.

I shot the 9.3x66 version at SHOT and absolutely loved it.

I wrote Beretta USA and the stocking US dealer to get the ball rolling. This has worked and I received a very positive written response. We are currently working on a special order to import a number of the Black Bear 9.3x62s. I will find out if this goes through shortly. I am only interested in one out of this bunch to purchase for myself, so there should be rifles available. I'll make sure you guys get the heads up if you'd like a shot at one.

Later

I bet that the Ruger 77 African http://www.ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeAfrican/models.html

and the CZ 550 Kevlar/Carbine http://www.ruger.com/products/m77HawkeyeAfrican/models.html

will be here before the Bretta SAKO does...

Fluted barrels look gross. I'd be grumpy if one of the only options for a 9.3 had a fluted barrel.

nice looking rifle, I shoot an M85 in 9.3x66. It replaces a 35Whelen and 375HH I have and had. Does everything the others do in a light low recoil package. Wonder if they will do this rifle in 9.3x66/370Sako mag?

From what I gather, they intend to import the 9.3x66 due to this chambering with Federal.

What about the Sako .370?

The Sako 370 and the 9.3x66 are one and the same, just different names for marketing.

I've a 9.3x62 & 64...what is the 66?

Get this instead:



Steyr Pro Hunter Mountain, 9.3x62. 7.3 pounds, 20" barrel, holds 5, 286gr Woodleighs @ 2450fps.

Rath

a 9.3x66/370sako mag is built on an 06 sized cartridge that is 2.6" long. It runs a 250gr bullet 2700fps and a 286gr bullet 2550fps in a 24"bbl

I take it that you are pleased with the cartridge?

Would you care to share the name of the "stocking dealer" and any timetable info? I think my .375 Ruger would go down the road if this Black Bear could be had, not that the Ruger is a bad gun.....I've just recently become enamored with guns from Finland and the 9.3x62.

yes I like the 9.3x66. On moose I see no difference to the 375HH I used to have. Found the 250gr AccuBond to an excellant all round bullet.

Huh

I am understanding that they aren't importing something incredibly useful like this to the U.S. Is it just the 9.3mm calibers of the whole line?

Welcome to the world of beretta logic

Merkel has 9.3x62 barrels in their modular (KR-1) rifle which is also available (or soon to be) with the American style stock. I have a hogback in 9.3 and .308 (should have gotten .243) and it is very sweet combo. I also have a CZ550 in 9.3x62. Terrific cartridge IMO.

I am hearing that due to Federal Cartridge making the ammunition for the American version of the 9.3x66, the "370 Sako", Beretta USA might be importing the Black Bear in that chambering. If this happens, not sure which other chamberings would be offered.

I'm not so sure that any of them have been actually built yet for shipment to the distributors. It may very well be that they are in the process of judging the total numbers of how many to make and to where each of these will be shipped for distribution. The Black Bear at the SHOT show was probably a pre-production rifle for testing and show.

Later

I can't help thinking how awesome this rifle would be in 338RCM or 338-06. It would still have significant brush power with the heavier 250gr+ round nose bullets and tremendous diversity in lighter weights as well.

The general setup is almost exactly what I want to build in a custom rifle.

This is the one I want.

I'd be all over the 370 so long as there was good brass available

Wow. Life is good, on 9.3x62 carbine decisions now. Sako 85 "Black Bear", a Steyr Pro Hunter "Mountain", or a CZ 550 FS wood stock "Mannlicher". How could one go wrong? Best or even better. Man, I love this stuff.

Sako makes a nice rifle just hope you never have a problem & have to deal with Beretta. I have had a problem & after preparing to sue they finally got resolved. Beretta specializes in lack of customer service. I will never buy another Beretta product.

Why would you prefer this guy over Sako's short barreled stainless 375 h and h?

Which model are you referencing?

The 375H&H uses the larger L action. They are heavier, they are longer, they hold less rounds, they have more recoil, and they are less handy. If you get the non-sighted slim barrel Synthetic, it will weigh the same, but it is longer, holds less rounds, has more recoil, and is less handy.

The 9.3 Black Bear uses the smaller M action. They are lighter, they are shorter, they hold more rounds, have less recoil, are more handy, and are near equal in terminal performance. Compared to the synthetic, the Black Bear has excellent iron sights and is compact in size.

Best

I was referring to the Sako 85 Kodiak in either 338 or 375 h and h. It weighs 8 lbs, holds 5 rounds, and has an identical length 21 1/4 inch barrel.

5 is 3 more than anyone should really need, unless you are huntng DG.

6 is complete overkill.

So, very specifically, why the 7 lb Sako Blackbear 9.3x62 with 21 1/4 inch barrel over the 8 lb Sako Kodiak 375 H and H with a 21 1/4 inch barrel?

I had no real trouble getting sako headstamped brass, its probably Norma, I have 200 when I bought the rifle, and for a big game rifle it will last a long time.

Very specifically for me, it is a good deal lighter in weight making for a handier package, while having reliable big gun performance with the recoil of a Whelen. I'm of the opinion the Black Bear appears to be an excellent platform for the 9.3x62/66 if one was looking for such chambered rifle. Eight pounds is no slug for a 375, but for me, at 8 pounds, I'd rather it be chambered 416.

Best

Gary,

I have not done the recoil calcs yet, but I'm betting that the recoil in an 9 lb(with scope/rings/ammo/sling swivels/sling 9.3mm Black Bear is going to be un-noticeably different than in the 10 lb 375 H and H Kodiak. Given equal bullet weights.

So, we are left with the weight issue. I will leave it to the reader to decide if 9 lbs is much different than 10 lbs, in the arena in which these two rifles will be carried. I'm guessing that pound won't make a bit of difference.

What about available factory ammo? Why would anyone going on a DG hunt in Africa or Alaska put themselves at such a disadvantage?

The other issue is stainless vs blued steel. I'll take stainless every time.

Out of curiosity, I went ahead and used HuntAmerica's recoil calculator to run the numbers-

With Federal Ammo's factory TSX loads for each-

(actually surprised Fed even made ammo for the 9.3)

9.3x66 BlackBear with 289 gr TSX at 2300FPS yields 28ftlbs of recoil energy and 13 ft/s velocity

375 h and h Kodiak with 300gr TSX at 2400FPS yields 32 ftlbs and 14 ft/s.

Please note I lopped 60fps off the BB for barrel length and 70 fps for the Kodiak.

Both are surprisingly pleasant compared to a 300 ultramag running Remington's 180 gr Swift Scirocco factory load.

You're all over the map talking in circles.

Are you talking cartridges, rifles, or finish?

I'm not speaking for anyone else but me:

A 375H&H does not have significant recoil, but a 375H&H will have more recoil than a 9.3x62.

An eight pound rifle will be heavier than a seven pound rifle no matter where you carry that rifle on planet earth. A person looking for a seven pound base rifle will probably not find what they're looking for in a heavier eight pound base rifle. All else equal, the seven pounder will be handier.

Stainless steels used in production rifles are not created equal and are not rust proof. They will rust with exposure to salt spray, sweat, and chlorates. A proper barrier finish is needed to reduce this damage and a chrome moly substrate does not preclude one from having a proper barrier finish.

As to ammunition, I doubt you'd be at some sort of disadvantage for finding ammo with a 9.3x62 compared to a 375H&H.

Don't follow your point or logic. I have a chrome moly rifle with a durable finish more rust resistant than any factory production stainless rifle sold with the exception of maybe the factory stainless/Ionbond type finishes offered on a couple. It's the barrier finish that is the deal breaker and quite a number of plain old blue steel finished rifles have been pressed into some extreme service over the decades in both Alaska as well as Africa proving this point.

If you have a dislike for the 9.3x62, that is okay. If you have a dislike for a 7-pound rifle, that is okay. If you have a dislike for chrome moly rifles, that's okay too. But none of this changes the facts that a 9.3x62 is a good cartridge and that this new Black Bear appears to be an outstanding platform for this cartridge, even if it is made from chrome moly steel.

Best

Gary,

I agree with much of what you say in general terms.

I am speaking to the Sako Black Bear vs the Sako Kodiak, however.

I simply cannot understand why anyone, knowing the above facts, would choose the Black Bear over the Kodiak other than having a 9 lb rifle vs a ten lb rifle( a meaningless, unnoticeable difference in my book).

Now if you will finally admit that you like the BB in 9.3 because it's the trendy thing to do, well then ya got me.

I really like this rifle. I think it's a much more useful version of the Remington 600 350 Rem Mag. That's really what I'm after.

Omnivorous,

I just built a second 416 to improve upon and replace my older 416. My older "Shoemaker light rifle" M70 416 weighed around 8 1/2 pounds with mounts less scope. My newer version is better balanced, better fit, and weighs approx 7 3/4 pounds with mounts less scope. The scope weighs 6 1/2 ounces and the ammo weighs 6 ounces which brings my new rifle to just over 8 1/2 pounds ready to roll. The difference between my old and new rifle is around 3/4 pounds and that difference is night and day. I like my old rifle, but my newer version is markedly improved and unmistakably better in my hands. To further place this into perspective, my scoped Sako 30-06 weighs 6 pounds 13 ounces. I completely and whole heartedly disagree with your statement reference weight if you are attempting to apply your personal preference as being factually the same as others, such as myself. Your thoughts on the matter apply to you, but they certainly do not apply to me.

As to being trendy; the 9.3x62 is about as far removed from modern trendy as a cartridge can go. If anything, it is an antiquated cartridge that is too old and vetted to be considered new and trendy. Compared to the trend for speed with the newer designs, I'd think many consider the aged 9.3x62 to be sluggish.

Going back to your complaints; each point you raised can be turned on most every cartridge, rifle, or finish. One could easily proclaim with authority; "With knowing all the facts, why would anyone choose either a 9.3x62 or a 375H&H Sako, when they can choose (fill-in-the-blank)."

Best

My 9.3 recoils far less than my .375 and hits like the Hammer of God. What's not to love?

Recoil can be very subjective.

I love my custom C/M 9.3x62 but when I fired it with full house 286 reloads next to my PH's .375H&H Ruger 77 with 270 grain Barnes reloads, the recoil was noticeably less and more 'controlled' in the Ruger. The Ruger appeared to weigh substantially more than my rifle.

After a few hours tracking on foot though, the lighter 9.3 was the pick.

Sorry it took so long to get back, but I promised I'd give an update on the New Sako "Black Bear" 9.3x62. Everything worked out with a limited number of 20 rifles special ordered with an expected delivery date this December. I have my order in to reserve 1 of those 20. If anyone is interested, contact Alex Roy to get your name in the hat to reserve one of the remaining. By the time the order comes in, they may all be spoken for and gone.

Best

Alex Roy
www.eurooptic.com
439 Crawford Alley
Montoursville, PA 17754
+1 570 220 3159
Fax +1 570 368 3923

Very good looking rifle. Don`t see why the need for the flutes on the barrel though. Weight savings? Won`t be much.

I imagine the flutes are there as much for "bling" as for weight reduction but when I handled and shot the rifle it was noticibly lighter and far better balanced and quicker to the shoulder than the 375 H&H Kodiak and Brown Bear versions.

..........I won`t be trading in my 375 Ruger Alaskan for the Sako.

I decided to thin my collection. I'm a big 416Rem fan and have that want covered well. I'm also a big 30-06 fan and have that want covered also. There are times I want a bigger bullet than the 30-06 without jumping up to the 416 and over the years I've found myself keeping and running examples of 375H&H/Rugers, 338WM/06/RCMs, and some other in-betweens. I recently decided to keep my 30-06 and my 416, but to sell off and replace all my other in-betweens with a single 9.3x62, which in a pinch could also replace my 30-06 as well as my 416. We'll see how it goes, but for now I don't mind so much selling off some of my rifles to have a bit of cash on hand during these hard times. I'll give this new rifle a run to see if it fits the bill.

Best

Gary, how much are those rifles going to cost?

on his site they are 1,695

Spot

It finally came in and I gave it a cursory look over tonight. Far better than I had expected, very impressive rifle that appears near perfect for what I wanted in a 9.3x62. I'm going to run the rifle with Optilock Ringmounts and a Schmidt Bender Zenith 1.1-4x24. Alex Roy did a great job getting the Black Bear into the States when no one else could, I'm pleased.

I'll try and post a photo review of the rifle when I get a chance to sit down and spend some time with it. I'm thinking she'll turn out to be a stellar rig.

Later

P.S.,

Alex brought in some of the Black Bears in .308 and 30-06 as well as the 9.3x62. Not sure what is left, but if you're interested, I'd give him a call.

Later

The Black Bear is half a pound lighter than expected. The standard listed weight from their prototype rifle is 7-pounds, but mine weighs in at 6 1/2 pounds with magazine box. Very pleasant surprise, the rifle appears closer to a Finnlight than to a Brown Bear. The balance and handiness is outstanding! It basically handles like a Finnlight with fixed sights. So far I'm pleased. I'll give it a shake down when I return from my trip.

Later

Oh CHIT ...another one to add to the "I gotta have" list...guess I'll just have to make do with the heavy arsed CZ "Ahmellican" and it's elephant snot finish to work some more of it's one caliber for everything magic until the Recession is over! Stout loads of RL15 under the ancient 250gr Ballistic Tips work great on WTails...hope the load works the same or better in NAB's.
Ron

Sakos are always lighter than their listed weight - ususally by some margin with the synthetic stocked versions. The finnlights are actually under the 6lb mark, and not much more than the Kimber montanas. The Sako synthetic stock is very light - only a touch more than the McMillan edge.

Sakos do NOT have a rep for being lighter that their listed weights. Most of them are actually heavier, especially their wood stocked rifles.

And their synthetics stocks are schit compared to a hand laid up fiberglass stock like an Edge.. Basically, injection molded crap on a $1,500 rifle. Great.

I wasn't saying the sako stock was as good as an edge stock; it is just an injection molded stock (personally, i am pretty happy with the best of the new injection molded stocks, anyway). I was saying they were about the same weight. The sako is probably the best of the injection molded stocks - and remember it is the stock shape that McMillan quite openly admits to copying for much of its own line. I thought the edge was carbonfibre, not fiberglass. I am suprised they can make a glass stock that weight.

Weigh any of the synthetic stocked 85s - they are way lighter than their listed weight, often by about half a pound.

I see nothing wrong with the Black Bear ST stock, it's very stiff and utilitarian, the ergonomics are near perfect for me, and I expect it to be durable and accurate. I'd not want to switch for a laid up fiberglass stock because that would add unneeded weight with little to no gain in performance. I'd also be leery with using a benchrest constructed "egg shell" stock as this would be a weaker construction which would save little to no weight and would have no performance gains. If I manage to break this stock, I'd probably also manage to break an "egg shell" constructed stock.

Later

I am glad you like you rifle ,Gary, but those stocks are NOT full equal of a McMillan Edge stock in weight, stiffness OR strength.

To claim such is laughable. The Sako koolaid has made you drunk.

I'm glad you edited your original post and turned it down a notch, you were getting a bit ugly.

Do you actually believe that a benchrest construction "egg shell" graphite Edge is stronger than a solid fill??? You save weight over solid fill, but you lose strength which is why they break when used on bigger chamberings. In addition, do you truly think that by installing an Edge stock that this rifle will somehow shoot more accurately or kill more game???? Do you truly believe that this stock will break from shooting or handling afield?????

I'd wager that this Black Bear ST stock will shoot hunting loads with ample accuracy. I'd also wager that the stock will be durable with many years of dependable service. I already know that it is light, stiff, and has great ergonomics. I just do not see how installing an Edge at this point could add any utilitarian value to the rifle. I can see how a solid fill could add some strength, but the extra strength will be unneeded for performance and I don't want the added weight. An Edge is not a solid fill, it is an "egg shell" that is stiff but with limited strength due to its construction.

It almost sounds like you were beaten as a child with a synthetic stock. A day in the field hunting with a wood stocked blued rifle would do you much good, this would help clear your head from drinking too much Edge Koolaid

I'd relax, there are plenty of Finnlights the world over that work well with their "laughable" factory stocks.

Best

i wish that i could get this guide gun gone so i can order a kodiak. Gary, I've been searching for scope mounts for them, wondering which you put on your bear? I'd like some detachable ones so i can utilize the iron sights if i wish.

I'm using these, the Sako 1-pc Optilock Ringmounts. They are lower than the x-tra low 2-pc Optilocks, and are cleaner with less bulk. They require a Torx key to loosen, but Sako published that they are designed to be removed and replaced without loss of zero. They have a solid fit with a positive stop. I much prefer these over the bulkier 2-pc version.



I'll be running this scope, 1.1-4 power.

Good Luck

Whats getting "ugly" is your total LACK of intellectual dishonesty here...

Dude, when a $1,500 + Sako has a stock no better constructed than one on a $300 Marlin XS7, something is wrong.

And for the record, EDGE fill stocks have worked JUST FINE on a 9.3x62 ( which is NOT a magnum cartrdge).

If you REALLY believe that the milk jug stock on your overpriced Sako is better than a hand laid up Carbon fiber McMillan EDGE- then you'd better call McMillan and tell them.

You also better tell all those aircraft engineers that use carbon fiber to build advanced Jet aircraft frame components.

And ,of course tell the benchrest shooters that if they just used new Sakos with injection molded stocks they would have better BR rifle platforms.

You're having a meltdown. I have an Edge on my long action M70, they are good stocks but not worth having a total meltdown over. You need to relax.

Not having a meltdown. And I am relaxed.

I just think its sad when some Sako Koolaid drinker claims their milk jug stocks are something that they are NOT- like the full equivalent of a McMillan edge.

Its laughable and you are wrong to do it.

Nice,Im liken it GaryVA.
(Comming from a guy that has one two many KoolAids in him)
Don't mean to hijack but
Phoneman,check out the Leupold QR bases for Sakos.I have a set and they are pretty slick.I think they would work best for what you want.

Gary, that combination looks absolutely spectacular. That is probably the definition of a well-balanced, hard-hitting hunting rifle.

Jim, you don't need anymore koolaid. You need a nice camomille tea in a quite room in a nice comfy chair, a few deeep breaths and to relax, dude.

I am sure a chick like you thinks drinking tea is a solution for swallowing big lies(among other things)..

Which explains why you would think an injection molded stock made from recycled Finnish milks jugs is the full structural equal of a McMillan Edge.

Go drink some more tea , Francis..

No doubt, wouldn't it be nice to see Sako's w/McMs at the current price point......NOT holding my breath.

That said, Sako takes pride and is not going to put JUNK on the market. I don't get excited about Tupperware, yet a rifle is a tool in the end, and if accurate and functional, as historically all Sako's have done very well in those regards.....I have no big beef.

If you want a sub MOA guaranteed rifle, get a Howa or Vanguard and drop it in a McM, for 1K. Afterall, they copied Sako's design and are well made, yet if you want a REAL Sako, you get what you get and Sako gets the price the market will bear.

The quality workmanship and accuracy has tom come with some price tag.

I think I could REALLY like that rifle above if I get a trip to AK together. No doubt, if they could come in at half the 1695 they'd be all the betta!

One more thing, a few years ago at SHOT, I talked to the folks at the McM booth re: Sako and the possibility of McM stocks, they said 'No go' so it's surely a 'bean counters' decision at corporate.......