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Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? Whitworth1 #4868972 01/27/11
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 9,101 Vernon BC Canada B BCBrian Campfire Outfitter
BCBrian Campfire Outfitter B Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 9,101 Vernon BC Canada	When you think about it - nothing - is what kills the elk. As in - nothing - where tissue used to be. In other words - the hole. The hole should go through important organs. Location of said hole - is very important. The bigger around the hole is - the faster the animal dies. And that's all I have to say about that. Brian Vernon BC Canada "Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."

GB1

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? DayPacker #4869094 01/27/11
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 39,301 Oregon City, OR S Scott F Campfire 'Bwana
Scott F Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 39,301 Oregon City, OR	A 22 will do it. In one ear and out the other. The first time I shot myself in the head... Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? Scott F #4869146 01/27/11
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 21,959 Idaho 340boy Campfire Ranger
340boy Campfire Ranger Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 21,959 Idaho	I would say just enough energy to put a hole(preferably two) through the 'clockwork'- just like any other game animal. Anything more than that is wasted out the other side. JMO. "For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? ironbender #4869158 01/27/11
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 28,605 NE Montana rattler Campfire Ranger
rattler Campfire Ranger Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 28,605 NE Montana	Originally Posted by ironbender Originally Posted by ConradCA The generally accepted best cartridge for elk is the 338 mag. Do you know how that was determined? would hazard a guess the 30-06 is used more than any and is perfectly adequate hell prolly ideal as more can shoot it easier than a 338 Win Mag.....most the elk hunters i know top out at a 300 Win Mag, plenty use 30-06's, 308's, 270 Wins ect......my daughter carries a 7-08 and is far from under gunned..... A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? rattler #4869172 01/27/11
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 21,959 Idaho 340boy Campfire Ranger
340boy Campfire Ranger Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 21,959 Idaho	I don't know a lot of elk hunters personally ,but the ones I do prefer the 270 WCF and 30-06 to most other stuff. I do know a fella that has had great luck with the 45-70 on the Wapiti. I guess that big ol slug flattens 'em! "For joy of knowing what may not be known we take the golden road to Samarkand." James Elroy Flecker

IC B2

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? Scott F #4869178 01/27/11
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 86,177 In the shadow of the Kenai Mtn... ironbender Campfire Oracle
ironbender Campfire Oracle Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 86,177 In the shadow of the Kenai Mtn...	Originally Posted by Scott F A 22 will do it. In one ear and out the other. How close does one have to be to achieve a pass-through, Scott? If you take the time it takes, it takes less time. --Pat Parelli American by birth; Alaskan by choice. --ironbender

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? ironbender #4869181 01/27/11
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 10,262 Between Seafire and Scott F B Bulletbutt Campfire Outfitter
Bulletbutt Campfire Outfitter B Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 10,262 Between Seafire and Scott F	Yeah... I saw a movie where only the military and the police had guns. It was called Schindler's List.

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? Bulletbutt #4869346 01/27/11
Joined: May 2009 Posts: 18,508 Mississippi JohnMoses Campfire Ranger
JohnMoses Campfire Ranger Joined: May 2009 Posts: 18,508 Mississippi	I've never shot one, so I don't know. With a kid in college and the economy sucking wind, it may be awhile before I can. In the meantime, I asked an elk that was part of a herd that resides in a high fence enclosure near where I hunt. He didn't know, because he has never shot an elk either.

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? Bulletbutt #4869517 01/27/11
Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,600 Santa Clara CA, USA ConradCA Campfire Outfitter
ConradCA Campfire Outfitter Joined: Jan 2002 Posts: 10,600 Santa Clara CA, USA	Originally Posted by Bulletbutt The 260 Rem with a TTSX or Partition is good for elk to 900 yards, and a 270 Wby is good a little farther. A 340 Wby is needed for ranges farther than that because it kicks more, so it hits harder. Your insane if you think that you can shoot any game animal at 900 yards! You will have to hit it and by the time you get to it it will be long gone.

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? ConradCA #4869600 01/27/11
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 20,494 South Central Manitoba T the_shootist Campfire Ranger
the_shootist Campfire Ranger T Joined: May 2003 Posts: 20,494 South Central Manitoba	Just like the man said -- location, location, location. Put a bullet deep enough into the lungs/heart, and eat elk. Energy is moot. "Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life." (Prov 4:23) Brother Keith

IC B3

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? ConradCA #4870017 01/27/11
Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,023 Colorado S smokepole Campfire 'Bwana
smokepole Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Jun 2006 Posts: 46,023 Colorado	Originally Posted by ConradCA Originally Posted by Bulletbutt The 260 Rem with a TTSX or Partition is good for elk to 900 yards, and a 270 Wby is good a little farther. A 340 Wby is needed for ranges farther than that because it kicks more, so it hits harder. Your insane if you think that you can shoot any game animal at 900 yards! You will have to hit it and by the time you get to it it will be long gone. If you get to it, how could it be gone? Is it a pot-a-gold kind of thing? A wise man is frequently humbled.

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? the_shootist #4870197 01/27/11
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 454 Arkansas SteveG Campfire Member
SteveG Campfire Member Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 454 Arkansas	With decent bullets, the product of energy and sectional density will give a good idea of penetrating destructiveness. Bill St.Clair's muzzle energy computer is here: http://billstclair.com/energy.html Plug in your bullet weight, down range velocity, and bullet caliber and you will get the computations. For example, a 45ACP with 230gr @800fps(muzzle) gives an ESD of 53, and is not something you would want to shoot an elk with. A 150gr 30/30 with a velocity of 1700fps(200yds) gives an ESD =229, which would be about the absolute minimum,IMO, for sport hunting of elk. But the biggest you can shoot accurately is best. A 300gr .375H&H downrange 200yds with velocity slowed to 2200 has an ESD of 983! A 270 gr .375 at 500yds with velocity of 1933fps still has an ESD over 600. Last edited by SteveG; 01/27/11. Steve "He wins the most, who honor saves. Success is not the test"--Ryan Blog: http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? ironbender #4870317 01/27/11
Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 39,301 Oregon City, OR S Scott F Campfire 'Bwana
Scott F Campfire 'Bwana S Joined: Dec 2000 Posts: 39,301 Oregon City, OR	Originally Posted by ironbender Originally Posted by Scott F A 22 will do it. In one ear and out the other. How close does one have to be to achieve a pass-through, Scott? It should wort to say 20 yards or so. In reality it is somewhat surprising what a little bullet will do in just the right place. Through the spine just in front of the shoulder, in one ear and out the other. I have always felt bullet placement is far more important than a one pound bullet at 6,000 FPS. The first time I shot myself in the head... Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? SteveG #4870352 01/27/11
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,371 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,371 Paradise,Alaska	Originally Posted by SteveG With decent bullets, the product of energy and sectional density will give a good idea of penetrating destructiveness. Bill St.Clair's muzzle energy computer is here: http://billstclair.com/energy.html Plug in your bullet weight, down range velocity, and bullet caliber and you will get the computations. For example, a 45ACP with 230gr @800fps(muzzle) gives an ESD of 53, and is not something you would want to shoot an elk with. A 150gr 30/30 with a velocity of 1700fps(200yds) gives an ESD =229, which would be about the absolute minimum,IMO, for sport hunting of elk. But the biggest you can shoot accurately is best. A 300gr .375H&H downrange 200yds with velocity slowed to 2200 has an ESD of 983! A 270 gr .375 at 500yds with velocity of 1933fps still has an ESD over 600. SD is as moot as "energy". SD doesn't take into account,THE most important facet of comparison...projectile integrity/construction. As per SD,ALL boolits of like diameter/weight have identical values,which is the grandest of ruses in their relative abilities,when extrapolated to eachother. Here is the ascending order of what controls terminal affects. 1) Placement 2) Projectile integrity 3) Headstamp You boys and your Fluff................. Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? Big Stick #4870357 01/27/11
Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 30,903 USA J jwp475 Campfire 'Bwana
jwp475 Campfire 'Bwana J Joined: Apr 2005 Posts: 30,903 USA	+1......... I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? jwp475 #4870428 01/27/11
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 454 Arkansas SteveG Campfire Member
SteveG Campfire Member Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 454 Arkansas	1) Placement--covered by "accuracy" 2) Projectile integrity--covered by "decent bullets" 3) Headstamp--more than covered by caliber and velocity What you're missing is that it still takes energy and penetration to kill. A perfect bullet hitting with perfect placement from a cartridge with your favorite headstamp won't kill if it's far enough downrange or loaded to such low velocity that it will fail to penetrate. Taint fluff, just basic smarts. Last edited by SteveG; 01/27/11. Steve "He wins the most, who honor saves. Success is not the test"--Ryan Blog: http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? SteveG #4870470 01/27/11
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,371 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,371 Paradise,Alaska	Cite the distance with a given boolit,when they start to bounce off...instead of "stick". Impact velocity/projectile construction,matters far more than "energy". An underhand toss of a grapefruit to your peabrain,might only straighten your crossed eyes...but an icepick in your ear with like velocity,will give you the cure. That despite your frilly grapefruit "energy" notion(s). Smarts ain't your gig,if only obviously.................. Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? SteveG #4870473 01/27/11
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,371 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,371 Paradise,Alaska	Originally Posted by SteveG 1) Placement--covered by "accuracy" 2) Projectile integrity--covered by "decent bullets" 3) Headstamp--more than covered by caliber and velocity What you're missing is that it still takes energy and penetration to kill. A perfect bullet hitting with perfect placement from a cartridge with your favorite headstamp won't kill if it's far enough downrange or loaded to such low velocity that it will fail to penetrate. Taint fluff, just basic smarts. I smell "delete". Laffin'............... Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? Big Stick #4870498 01/27/11
Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 454 Arkansas SteveG Campfire Member
SteveG Campfire Member Joined: Feb 2008 Posts: 454 Arkansas	Betcha that smell is your nigh frozen-brain trying to scramble around, warm up, and figure out WTF energy and sectional density mean. Steve "He wins the most, who honor saves. Success is not the test"--Ryan Blog: http://www.baitshopboyz.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=71

Re: How much energy is needed to kill an elk down range? SteveG #4870514 01/27/11
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,371 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,371 Paradise,Alaska	I shoot too much,to let Fluffers and their fluff skew reality. It's entertainin' though! "Energy" and "SD" are feel-good axioms,to satiate the clueless in their oblivious quest,to feign experience...less yanking a trigger and spilling blood. Cracks me up................ Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

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