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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
TRH, What are doing callin' me an old biddy? Keep it up and I'll sic the entire merry band of turdlike people on you.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,554
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 15,554 |
lol I agree with ya on that.
"I Birn Quhil I Se" MacLeod of Lewis I Burn While I See Hold Fast MacLeod of Harris
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
"from an economic development standpoint we might be better off legalizing marijuana. let the organic farmers developed "niche" varieties of plants, and market locally. it'll be regulated to be sure no "wrong" pesticides were used."
It's already being done in the states that have legalized medicinal marijuana.
yep. so there you have it. a "model" to develop, learn from, and to further tweak and optimize. local self-reliance being augmented by what the legal medical profession demands. why not ensure it's truly "organically" grown unless otherwise posted. it wouldn't have to be, not all of it. but, i'd want to know, if i were a consumer, what the plant material had been exposed to in terms of chemical pesticides. but that's just me.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
I would say the same in regards to someone driving a truck at me. Reality.....
George I'm done for. Your razor wit has cut my arguments to ribbons, sir. I concede defeat.
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 48,411 |
legalize drugs and you immediately create another dependent group the government will have to be responsible for, another protected class for discrimination litigation, and another group who must be accommodated under the ADA.....and I'm sure lots of other consequences I'm not even thinking of yet.
if drugs are legal, you can't discriminate against people who fail a drug test. think about that....and its implications for....oh....say....pilots, truck drivers, surgeons....you get the idea?
Proudly representing oil companies, defense contractors, and firearms manufacturers since 1980. Because merchants of death need lawyers, too.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
"from an economic development standpoint we might be better off legalizing marijuana. let the organic farmers developed "niche" varieties of plants, and market locally. it'll be regulated to be sure no "wrong" pesticides were used."
It's already being done in the states that have legalized medicinal marijuana.
yep. so there you have it. a "model" to develop, learn from, and to further tweak and optimize. local self-reliance being augmented by what the legal medical profession demands. why not ensure it's truly "organically" grown unless otherwise posted. it wouldn't have to be, not all of it. but, i'd want to know, if i were a consumer, what the plant material had been exposed to in terms of chemical pesticides. but that's just me. They already have testing labs in California for just that sort of thing.
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,928
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 10,928 |
Man, are you barking up the wrong tree. I tried a tobacco cigarette when I was 16, and have suffered through about five cigars in my nearly fifty years. I cook with wine, and very occasionally have a glass with dinner, or a beer. That's the full extent of my recreational drug use history. Dudette....are you telling us that the brainpower you have left and use on this forum hasn't been altered/damaged due to drugs/alcohol/tobacky in any way that would be defined as reckless or possibly damaging to one's mind? Wow!
All American
All the time
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
"from an economic development standpoint we might be better off legalizing marijuana. let the organic farmers developed "niche" varieties of plants, and market locally. it'll be regulated to be sure no "wrong" pesticides were used."
It's already being done in the states that have legalized medicinal marijuana.
yep. so there you have it. a "model" to develop, learn from, and to further tweak and optimize. local self-reliance being augmented by what the legal medical profession demands. why not ensure it's truly "organically" grown unless otherwise posted. it wouldn't have to be, not all of it. but, i'd want to know, if i were a consumer, what the plant material had been exposed to in terms of chemical pesticides. but that's just me. They already have testing labs in California for just that sort of thing. yep. once again, it's better to regulate a substance than to ban it outright. we have speedlimits, axle weights, number of legal driving hours, etc. so people who fly planes have to test "zero tolerance" for alcohol, any other mind or physically altering effects. it's kinda like ya can't give blood if you have cold, or flu, etc.etc. it would have to be managed. right now, it's filling the coffers of the illegal drug dealers and whomever else benefits from the fallout.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
yep. so there you have it. a "model" to develop, learn from, and to further tweak and optimize.
No thanks. 1. Alaska 2. Arizona 3. California 4. Colorado 5. DC 6. Hawaii 7. Maine 8. Michigan 9. Montana 10. Nevada 11. New Jersey 12. New Mexico 13. Oregon 14. Rhode Island 15. Vermont 16. Washington
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
yep. so there you have it. a "model" to develop, learn from, and to further tweak and optimize.
No thanks. 1. Alaska 2. Arizona 3. California 4. Colorado 5. DC 6. Hawaii 7. Maine 8. Michigan 9. Montana 10. Nevada 11. New Jersey 12. New Mexico 13. Oregon 14. Rhode Island 15. Vermont 16. Washington i don't keep up with the stuff. is that 16 for or against? certainly it's not 50 for or against. on a county by county basis, i guess it's even more diverse.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
States that allow medical marijuana use/sales.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,662 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,662 Likes: 12 |
So we're supposed to believe no cops or public officials are being paid off? It's been a matter of public record for decades that the CIA has been heavily into the illegal drug trade (Why do you think the US military is guarding, instead of burning, opium fields in Afghanistan?). The people fighting the hardest to keep it illegal (cops and government officials) are the most suspect of corruption, in my opinion. Why else support something so obviously a huge failure, and so obviously destructive of American liberty? Your stupidity and hatred for the armed forces knows no bounds. Calling you stupid, gives stupid people a bad name. Oinions are like [bleep], everybody has one and they stink, yours however is particularly fetid.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,341
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,341 |
legalize drugs and you immediately create another dependent group the government will have to be responsible for, another protected class for discrimination litigation, and another group who must be accommodated under the ADA.....and I'm sure lots of other consequences I'm not even thinking of yet.
if drugs are legal, you can't discriminate against people who fail a drug test. think about that....and its implications for....oh....say....pilots, truck drivers, surgeons....you get the idea? I don't follow ya on this. Is an alcoholic protected under the ADA? If a person has a DUI ya either can't employ them by law or don't have to hire them by company policy...right? At present drug screen failure is the same consequence. How would that change?
The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,341
Campfire Outfitter
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OP
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 9,341 |
So we're supposed to believe no cops or public officials are being paid off? It's been a matter of public record for decades that the CIA has been heavily into the illegal drug trade (Why do you think the US military is guarding, instead of burning, opium fields in Afghanistan?). The people fighting the hardest to keep it illegal (cops and government officials) are the most suspect of corruption, in my opinion. Why else support something so obviously a huge failure, and so obviously destructive of American liberty? Your stupidity and hatred for the armed forces knows no bounds. Calling you stupid, gives stupid people a bad name. Oinions are like [bleep], everybody has one and they stink, yours however is particularly fetid. Jorge I did see in print somewhere that before the Afgan war production there was ~10% of world production and now is ~90%. Prior or maybe during Russian invasion it was high also. What do ya know bout this?
The end of democracy, and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 132,048 Likes: 65 |
Your hatred for the armed forces knows no bounds. I hate corruption, not members of the armed forces, who for the most part I admire. I also hate nobly-intentioned members of the armed forces being used for corrupt purposes with little regard for the value of their lives.
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
Gus may be on to something, but I doubt if it what he intended.
States where medical marijuana is legal. 1. Alaska 2. Arizona 3. California 4. Colorado 5. DC 6. Hawaii 7. Maine 8. Michigan 9. Montana 10. Nevada 11. New Jersey 12. New Mexico 13. Oregon 14. Rhode Island 15. Vermont 16. Washington
States with highest average income.
1 Maryland 2 New Jersey 3 Connecticut 4 Alaska 5 Hawaii 6 Massachusetts 7 New Hampshire 8 Virginia District of Columbia 9 California 10 Delaware 11 Washington 12 Minnesota 13 Colorado 14 Utah 15 New York 16 Rhode Island 17 Illinois 18 Nevada 19 Wyoming 20 Vermont 21 Wisconsin 22 Pennsylvania 23 Arizona 24 Oregon 25 Texas 26 Iowa 27 North Dakota 28 Kansas 29 Georgia 30 Nebraska 31 Maine 32 Indiana 33 Ohio 34 Michigan 35 Missouri 36 South Dakota 37 Idaho 38 Florida 39 North Carolina 40 New Mexico 41 Louisiana 42 South Carolina 43 Montana 44 Tennessee 45 Oklahoma 46 Alabama 47 Kentucky 48 Arkansas 49 West Virginia 50 Mississippi
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,662 Likes: 12
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,662 Likes: 12 |
Sure don't but it would not surprise me if it is higher now, but to insinuate (not you) that members of the US Armed Forces are actually "protecting" Poppy Fields I find reprehesible. jorge
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,453 |
jorge, your not really surprised that the usual conspiracy soaked subjects here would say or even think that are you ?
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Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 26,337 |
Gus may be on to something, but I doubt if it what he intended.
States where medical marijuana is legal. 1. Alaska 2. Arizona 3. California 4. Colorado 5. DC 6. Hawaii 7. Maine 8. Michigan 9. Montana 10. Nevada 11. New Jersey 12. New Mexico 13. Oregon 14. Rhode Island 15. Vermont 16. Washington
States with highest average income.
1 Maryland 2 New Jersey 3 Connecticut 4 Alaska 5 Hawaii 6 Massachusetts 7 New Hampshire 8 Virginia District of Columbia 9 California 10 Delaware 11 Washington 12 Minnesota 13 Colorado 14 Utah 15 New York 16 Rhode Island 17 Illinois 18 Nevada 19 Wyoming 20 Vermont 21 Wisconsin 22 Pennsylvania 23 Arizona 24 Oregon 25 Texas 26 Iowa 27 North Dakota 28 Kansas 29 Georgia 30 Nebraska 31 Maine 32 Indiana 33 Ohio 34 Michigan 35 Missouri 36 South Dakota 37 Idaho 38 Florida 39 North Carolina 40 New Mexico 41 Louisiana 42 South Carolina 43 Montana 44 Tennessee 45 Oklahoma 46 Alabama 47 Kentucky 48 Arkansas 49 West Virginia 50 Mississippi i'll have to leave it to the statisticians and other analysts to state what all of this stuff means. but, it looks like, at a quick glance that the most "affluent" states are most engaged in allowing pot for medicine. ??? i don't really know, for sure. my thoughts were that local small farmers, engaging in both organic and chemical production of saleable marijuana would help local economies. meanwhile, less expensive LE would be needed, since it was no longer a war going on, but a process to enable local, legal, pot production. in context, if the Federal budgets must be reduced, then this changeover offers a conversion from cost to positive revenue for local communities who are struggling through these hard economic times. there's likely plenty of crime for LE to be involved with beyond the drug issues. noone should ever feel threatened by a potential lack of work scenario. LE will be needed until the end of times, no doubt.
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 9,101 |
The "war on drugs" - is as misguided as any war in history - and a bigger failure than any of them.
Will we ever learn? Anyone who's ever studied the history of the prohibition - knows how futile that way of thinking is - at least when it comes to prohibiting people from doing what they want to do.
To start, I think we need to immediately totally legalize cannabis. If anyone wants to - they should be able to grow what ever amount they want to. Every smoker can have his plants. The bottom will fall out of the market - organized crime will loose their biggest source of revenue, and soon afterwards - it will cease to be profitable to grow. It's often the cannabis trade that finances the harder stuff. It gets traded for harder stuff. With the hard drugs - and this is radical - I think we should stop trying to treat use as a crime - and start treating it's use as a societal problem.
The great majority of hard-drug users are the poorest and most vulnerable and desperate members of society. They need help - not prison time.
In some countries (like Norway) they can go to a medical center - and get their drug - for free. There, professionals, will help them, guide them, monitor them and council them. The only place they can get their free drugs - is to attend the sessions designed to help them get their lives together.
You might still end up with a junkie - but now you have a junkie living within society - instead of having a junkie that needs to expose themselves and others to HIV/AIDS, Syphilis, Gonorrhea, Hepatitis etc. They won't have to prostitute themselves, they won't have to steal hundreds of dollars per day to support their habit and they won't have do do anything illegal to exist. But - at least they'd have hope.
I know this type of thinking doesn't sit well with some conservatives. It's easier to say "kill 'em all" which will never happen anyways, and when the time comes that it's your relative or friend that they're talking about killing - then your views will change - and they change damn fast.
According to most studies - the severity of the sentence - is unrelated to the law's effectiveness in diminishing drug use. Virtually every study on the drug trade shows that. Countries with mandatory death sentences - have as much addiction problems as counties with lax laws.
The only countries that seem to actually be reducing hard drug use - are the ones that treat addiction as an illness, and as a societal problem. The societies with the most people locked up in prisons - are the same societies that presently have the biggest drug problems.
In Vancouver, for example, they now have "shooting galleries" where the heroin addicts can do their drugs. While they are there, they get counseling, guidance and medical care.
But, because they still have to prostitute themselves - or steal - to buy those same drugs - the programs today in Canada aren't as efficient as they could be. But - even as they are designed - it's a start in the right direction. And - interestingly enough - even the beat cops on the downtown east side, see those sites as part of the solution.
Our societies have just about perfected what doesn't work.
It's time we tried some radical new ideas - and tried to find what does work.
Brian
Vernon BC Canada
"Nothing in life - can compare to seeing smiles on your children's faces."
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