Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Appropriate calibres for Grizzlies and/or Coastal Brown Bears

George,

I don't see how you would be poorly served by either of your caliber choices. If you can shoot both equally as well, then go with what you please. My guess is a guy can tell a little difference at his shoulder between .340 and .375, but the bear is gonna have a hard time discerning which is which. I have been really impressed with the .340 in the applications I have seen it used, including 2 nice brown bears. It appears to hit hard. Good luck hope you get a big ole bruin that looks to need a haircut and has no bald spots.

Phil,

I read where Andy Runyon liked 300 grain Barnes bullets out of a "fast" 416 (like a 416 Rem) at about 2800 fps. He described the kills as spectacular. The article was from several years ago, and he said something about having killed 40 big bears with the "fast" 416s. He said the 350 grainers killed well also, but not as quickly as the 300 grainers pushed a couple hundred fps faster.

I suppose a 300 grainer from a 416 Rem is a "light" bullet for a 416, but is that what you were referring to when you spoke of Andy liking light bullets?

Blaine, Andy was certain that fast lighter bullets killed bears faster and as long as one gets a good hit I have no doubt that he may have been right most of the time. But Andy had some close calls on charging bears with his 375 so velocity alone is not the answer all the time. He really liked the 40 calibers and light rifles and bullets (maybe there was some correlation?)
I have seen light for calibers kill big bears very quickly but also seen miserable results with them as well so I prefer large caliber bullets heavy enough to give full penetration first and velocity second

I love this stuff, and it has been most informative. It reminds me of a humorous quote in a Charles Petty magazine article last year in Handgunner that went:

"It really doesn't matter what you use just be sure to lube the bullets with bacon grease so when you throw the empty gun at the bear it will stop to lick it and give you time to get away"

Phil,

What would you recommend from a 416 Rem for big bears? I am currently geting 2550ish from 350 Barnes TSX and excellent accuracy.

Blaine, I can't imagine a better big bear basher than what you already have.

Phil,

Thanks. I am a one load per gun kind of guy anyway, and that simplified things.

Now, if I can just firgure out how to keep the rounds in the magazine from having their bullets pounded deep into the cases. I am already using a Lee factory crimp die, I guess I'll have to alter seating depth so I can crimp in one if the grooves of the TSX.

That's kind of like the old joke that one hunter said to his partner, "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you!" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" />

Phil,
I've been following this thread, and it has been most informative. I appreciate you taking the time to share your advice and experience. Thanks!

Steve

Now this is one hell of a fun and informative thread. Now, not being of a particularly sound mind, I may have enuff money to do an Alaskan hunt within a couple of years so Here is MY question---Would any of you guides consider taking on a guy who wants to use an original Sharps 45-110 buffalo gun??

Phil, I want to say you've become an absolute "must read" for me in any publication you've written for... I don't say that lightly! You've gone a long way toward replacing Finn Aagaard in that regard, though I don't think there will ever be one quite like him again... God truly broke the mold with him, IMO!

Regarding "bear medicine"... what's your take on the 350 RM? Have you watched it in action?

Thank's... great thread.

My answer to the last two questions is yes on both. The 45-110 with the original heavy cast bullets should shoot completely thru most bears so as long as the hunter can put it in the correct place I certainly would have no problem with it. As for the .350 RM, I think the state of AK still has a pretty good inventory of original Rem 600's in 350 for use by wardens. The second largest bear taken in my camp was by a Japanese women using a 350RM (it is well up in the B&C book) The great, and unfortunately late, Kodiak bear guide Andy Runyon always kept one as a camp loaner as well. The 350RM is a known and proven big bear caliber

Phil,

Thanks so much for kindly sharing your experience with us.

I hadn't heard of Andy's passing, have you considerred writing an article about him?

Andy died in a car wreck this past winter. I had been planning on doing a book on Alaskan guides sort of like Brian Hearn's book on African guides and had talked to Andy about it but waited to late. However Harry Dodge has a new book out on Kodiak guides that lightly covers Andy. Harry is a very highly knowledgeable Kodiak guide and from the little I've seen of the book I would say it should be a must read. ( I would have bought one but father's day is coming up and I am hoping a copy might appear)

Thanks for the response. I would understand very well that some may be a bit reluctant to have someone around using old guns of that type. How much penetration is wanted?? These cannons shot through bull bison over 500 yds away. I figured that would be enuff. How much should I be lookin to raid my piggybank for??

$10-12,000, plus airfair to Alaska.

That isn't too bad at all!!!! Those of you who post pics of Alaska leave me drooling. I'm sorry to hear of the untimely passing of your friend. I'll hoist a good one for him and hope he's in the hunter's version of Fiddler's Green.

I talked to Andy last fall after the USF&WS awarded guide areas again for another ten years. He told me all he wanted was a little piece of the Alaska he knew left so he could continue hunting, shooting and trapping till he passed on. Looks like he got his wish. If I remember correctly he said he had been guiding since 1948. He also was one of the very few guides I have ever met anywhere in the world that was a serious, over the top, died in the wool gun loony. He was working on a 400 Schuler for this next bear season. He will be missed.

For your buddy Andy. A toast I heard some time ago. "To all the Oldtimers. Those who were, those who are, and those who are gonna be"

DONT KNOW FOR SURE; I WAS GOING TO HUNT WITH PARTITION BEFORE HE ADVISED ME TO GO TO SWIFT A FRAME. CANT IMAGINE ANYONE SHOOTING A BALLISTIC TIP FOR BIG BEAR HOWEVER.

You're right, but as you said, the study was conducted for defense at short range and the authors specifically wrote "Most tests have been conducted at ranges of 50 or 75 yards to 300 yards or more..." and "The ballistic performance of bullets at short range is often considerably different from the same bullet at the longer ranges generally encountered while hunting."

I submit that the 300 Winchester or Weatherby are, despite their poor ranking inthe USFS study, every bit as capable, and perhaps better suited, for selection as a hunting round for grizzly and brown bears, than the 30-06 given 180 or 220 grain bullets in each.

It was a very interesting study and one the likes of which I had not seen prior. However it was intended for evaluation of defensive use inside 20 yards. I submit that rifles with higher velocities would be at a disadvantage in this arena unless premium ammunition was used. In the study they used strictly factory ammunition and, in what is typical government cost cutting, no premium bullets were used (at least, not insofar as one can tell from Table 1 in the article).

While the article by Meehan and Thilenius gives some very good guidelines there is more to consider in the hunting equation.

I submit that any rifle of 30 caliber or greater, shooting premium (TBBC, Partition, Fail Safe, Barnes, Swift etc) bullets (either handloaded or factory) at moderate to high (smokeless powder) velocities, using heavy bullets (180 or 200 in 30 caliber, etc) and given proper shot placement, would be suffifient for grizzly and brown bears.

I tend towards too much bullet and too much rifle, no matter what the game animal. I've always subscribed to the adage that you cannot kill an animal too dead. For that reason I would tend towards a rifle of 33 caliber and a 250gr Nosler Partition. I know that my 300 Winchester shooting a 180 gr Partition would be completely adequate, but I would still want to go heavier.

Knowing myself the way I do I would probably be carrying my 416 Rigby is given the chance to go tangle with Brownies.

Hell, I'd use it on Blackies too...who am I kidding. Dead is good, less than dead is very, very bad.

The link to the above cited study...

http://www.fs.fed.us/pnw/pubs/gtr152.pdf