Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns You only need a 1911A1 .45. Throw the rest away

The funny thing is that everything I have read regarding the Marhall-Sanow reports etc. have not proclaimed the .45 ACP #1 in one shot kills as you so boldly proclaim. Seems to me there is something called a uhhh.. .356 no no that's not it umm... .358 no no that's the bullet diameter oh yeah it's the .357 Magnum. Yeah that's the one. 125 grain jacketed hollowpoints. Does that ring a bell? SHow me your proof that the .45 ACP is the king of one shot stops!
Don't get me wrong I love my Kimber in .45 but lets try to stay factual here in the real world. Sean

Just thought that I'd point out that the Elite Tactical Units that I deal with everyday out here in Afghanistan do indeed have 357sig's mags, 9mm's, and 45's.

Personally, and that's all this argument actually boils down to (personal preference) I'll take the 357 over the 45 if I had a choice. All things being the same, you can carry more rounds per mag in 357 than you can in 45 and they both kill with equal efficiency.

But alas, this thread wasn't about caliber as much as it was about the Gun itself. I hold to the fact that the BEST combat and CCW gun out there is the one you PERSONALLY are most proficient and comfortable with. Personally, I don't like the 1911's and will never own another one, but that's just me.

A high capacity 1911 can hold 14 in the mag and 1 the the chamber for a total of 15. I like those odds

The stock 1911A1s weren't such a POS and 4" DA .357's had never been produced.

Now we'll see where this goes!

CB

Interesting historical fact. The first combat the 1911 saw was when we chased Pancho Villa back into Mexico. Perhaps we ought to use it to do it all over again.

Still have one that I carry BTW:

Once you go 1911 you never go back.

Logansdad, the difference between the best .45 ACP and the best .357 magnum is insignificant......

Still have one that I carry BTW:

It's interesting that the majority of SEALS today are chosing the SIG P226 9mm over their other permitted choice, the SOCOM Mk 23 .45 ACP. Also intersting that both the Masters and Expert class trophies in the Custom Defensive Pistol Division (usually thought of as the SA '1911' .45 ACP Division) at the 2003 IDPA Winter Championships were won by 2 guys shooting SIG P220STs. The 1911 in .45 ACP used to be one of the few good choices, now it is one of many good choices! Regards, Dennis

Skill with your chosen weapon(s) is the critical factor in its effectiveness in a deadly force situation. Platform and caliber are secondary and tertiary considerations, at best.

I know this because I analyze dozens of police shootings every year, and have access to detailed autopsy reports (including Xrays and autopsy photos), crime scene photos, statements by the principals and witnesses, the works. Like just about everybody else who has experience in this line of work, I've come to the conclusion that any police service caliber/sidearm is capable of ending any given gunfight swiftly and successfully, and any police service caliber/sidearm is also capable of going completely sideways with bad outcomes all around. The difference between not only surviving but winnning a deadly force situation is your ability to put bullets into the vital zones of your opponent's body efficiently (speed + accuracy).

I have within the last two years reviewed two police shootings where the officers, armed with .45 ACP pistols & ammo, failed to successfully win the fight. Why? Poor shot placement. In both cases their departments had gone to the big .45 because they thought it was a Sure Thing. Officers went into action believing that they had the Magic Bullet, and all they had to do was point the gun in the bad guy's general direction, pull the trigger, and the bad guy would be vaporized. WRONG!! You still have to put the bullets where it counts! One felon absorbed FIVE 230 gr Speer GDHP's, spent 3 months in ICU (at taxpayer expense!), and is back on the street now.

In the same time frame, I've got dozens of successsful gunfight wins in my files where the officers used 9mm pistols, and even more who used .40 S&W. Sure, there were failures in some of those, too, but you can't blame the caliber: it was poor shooting in every case.

My department issues/mandates the SIG P220 in .45 ACP. It's a great pistol, and I don't mind being required to carry it when I go out on a SWAT call. But I've done enough competitive shooting with all kinds of guns and calibers and have killed deer and hogs with 9mm's, 357's, 40 S&W's and various 44's and 45's to be comfortable with any serviceable handgun in any of those calibers. Why? Because I know where to place my shots, and I practice with my handguns to be sure I can reliably put the bullets where I want them to go.

As for the Holy High and Mighty 1911A1 and its many modern clones... as much as I love it, and in fact more often than not will be found carrying one, I don't consider it the be-all and end-all of pistols. It's a high-maintenance gun, so people who tend to leave their guns unfired and/or uncleaned are gonna experience breakdowns. Don't believe me? Talk to the department armorers for any department that issues/mandates the 1911. They have to maintain a large inventory of spare pistols to keep their officers armed while their 1911's are in the shop for repairs and extra maintenance (Albuquerque PD is the dept I most recently talked with about this situation). Jeff Cooper loved the 1911, but he asserted a serious 1911 user (one who shoots regularly, and doesn't just carry it around) must have at least 3 1911's. One to carry, one spare for when the primary breaks down, and one in the gunsmith's shop. And don't think that just because you've got a all-the-bells-and-whistles modern 1911 clone your risks of breakdowns is lower; in fact, due to the tighter tolerances of our Springfield, Kimber, 10-8, and custom 1911's, they're actually more prone to stoppages in dirty/wet conditions than a plain-jane G.I. 1911A1.

The 1911 is an expert's or enthusiast's gun. Its manual of arms is more complex than a Glock or SIG or M&P. Its maintenance schedule is likewise more detailed and must be performed more frequently. By way of contrast, I offer the example of my friend H.I., who trains Special Forces troops almost fulltime, and who served for almost 2 decades as a a SF soldier, cop, and bodyguard in Africa. H.I. has shot and killed more people than most of us can imagine, and many of them in unimaginably difficult environments. His personal choice for a handgun is a Glock 21, because he's managed to break every other model of .45 ACP pistol.

Like I said, I carry 1911's more than any other pistol. Springfield, Kimber, and Colt 1911's live at my house and get shot a LOT. But I also have a SIG P220 and a Glock 21, and if I was going to just keep one .45 for serious work over an extended period of time, it wouldn't be a 1911. Fortunately, though, I have the time, tools, and training to maintain my 1911's to keep them in good working order. Because of that, and because I happen to find Slabsides fits my hand well and shoots very well for me, I choose to carry a 1911 off-duty more often than all my other pistols combined.

But throw away the rest, TRH? Nonononononono.