Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns You only need a 1911A1 .45. Throw the rest away

But Cooper's love-child was the 10mm, run at 30K+ psi. In fact his interest in the 10mm was to correct his perceived shortcomings of the 45ACP.

I've read much of Cooper's work, and the way I remember it, Cooper didn't feel the .45 ACP had any drawbacks in its design role other than capacity potential (and he wasn't so much speaking for himself, but for others who wanted more capacity in a major caliber), and this was the reason for his suggestion of a 10mm round, i.e., so you could stagger the magazine (wonder nine style) in something like a CZ-75 in 10mm (� la the Bren Ten). He didn't imagine they could ever design a staggered magazine 1911 in .45 ACP, which they later went on to do. Not sure what his opinion of the staggered magazine 1911s were, though. Maybe he thought the grip was too thick for all I know. I've personally never held one in my hand.

I'd guess that if a man could have run a course of fire with Col. Cooper in observation while using a .45 Super 255gr pushed at over 1100fps (obtaining a satisfactory score) the Col. would likely nod his approval.

Knowing how he differentiated self defense from combat as being seven yards and not fifty or more, it makes much sense why he used and promoted the loadings he did for the .45 ACP. +P was the upper limit in his opinion. Had the distinct pleasure of listening to him state that in person.

He was well aware of higher capacity .45 ACP 1911A1's. Was not that long ago he left us. His envolvement in the various .40 caliber versions over the years was more for improving handgun combat applications (think US Marines in the field) and to stretch effective distances with flatter trajectories. Capacity was not the key concern.
Fitting within the intended platform was.

Discussions of the .40 Super, the .45 Super and the 10MM in all their various forms are to be considered completely different cartridges with different intentional applications. Heck, they were initially developed/designed for platforms other than the 1911A1. Do they work in properly built 1911A1's? Sure.
Can everyone put one to use in self defense application? Probably not.
Those who can, and have proven it to themselves through practice, drive on!

I must not have been clear. I know he only left us recently. When I said he didn't imagine they could design a practical, staggered magazine, 1911 in .45, I was refering to the period of time when he first started discussing his thoughts about the merits of developing a 10mm along the lines of a CZ-75.

That's the beauty of knowing and understanding just how much the Colonel changed defensive handgunning.
He lived through the changes. He discussed his opinions and how they changed through experience and observed results. It was a constant work in progress for him.
Wasn't much going on in the industry that he was not privy to.
Include .gov and Quantico too.

Timeframe of mid-late 80's, DxD had the Bren moving to production at the same time Para was bringing their hi-cap .45 frames/kits to production.

Notice neither of the above spent much time on his belt. What did hang off his hip was not "nuclear" loaded either. He proved time and time again the advantages to the .45 ACP and the 1911A1 for self defense. He was not one to throw away something just because it was different. He simply knew what worked.

Yep. True.

Cooper's favor for the 10mm was more than magazine capacity. Power, trajectory, and penetrative qualities were/are far superior to what the 45 ACP can muster in standard guise.

I'll second that opinion. I've been very happy with mine. It's only had ~500 rounds through it so far, so it's still early days for an objective opinion. However, I haven't had a single failure yet, shooting a variety of HP and ball, and I'm still just using the factory mags.

I picked up mine for $600 after tax (blued, w/ the walnut 1/2-checkered, 1/2-stipled grips).

Cooper later on said that there really was no reason for the 10mm. They saw a perceived "need" and went about designing a cartridge that filled that need, only to later realize there was absolutely nothing wrong with the .45 ACP as is. The 10mm in full power loadings was more gun than most could handle and Cooper recognized that.

The cartridge was actually designed by Whit Collins, John Adams & Irv Stone, with some help from Cooper. Cooper's real role was his collaboration on the Bren 10. But don't lend too much to Cooper and his Bren 10. This was an ill fated attempt to bring a product to market, and as it turned out, they were unable to successfully do that.

The REAL idea was to SELL GUNS, not to correct any deficiencies in the .45 ACP.

+1

I tend to agree on the point the 10mm may be too much for some to handle.

I had a Glock 20 that was pretty easy to handle though. I traded it off, and kept the Glock 21......silly me.

I love the 10mm ballistics, It's a serious step up from the 45ACP. The thing about the G20 that put me off was those bulged smilies in the fired case where it was unsupported. It just looked like the margin for safety was being pushed a little too close to the line.

So anyway, I decided to ditch the 10mm, and if I want to carry more power than the 45ACP, I carry the Ruger SBH 44Mag.

The easiest fix for reducing slide velocity in a 1911 is a square-bottom firing pin stop and it also reduces recoil. Chances are you can fire hotter loads without changing recoil springs or reduce the recoil spring weight for standard loads. The only downside is slightly increasing the effort needed to manually cock the hammer using the slide. As a bonus, the square-bottom stop is as designed by JMB. About $15 from EGW.

Kevin, do you have any idea where I can find this in print---I have a friend that's constantly beating me over the head about the 10mm. I'd love to have this in chapter and verse for him!! I have all of the Gunsite notes, etc. but don't recall seeing it anywhere.