Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns .45 vs 10 mm

Hey, no kidding? Thanks for that. Just what is the difference between "divided by" and "per" though? I guess being an engineer for the last thirty plus years I never figured that out. Maybe I should have attended the University of Wikipedia.

If you actually read my post you might have noticed I was trying to explain the proportionality of force, area and pressure to someone who thinks it works backwards, and by saying "divided by" instead of "per" it might make it easier to visualize. I guess it only made it easier to gig me using google. Yep, you got me good there.

I did not mean to offend...

You being an engineer, most likely use the statements interchangeably.

I can understand why you saw it as a gig even though I did not intend it to be.

First of all, as a defensive round against even large bears, some 10mm loads have plenty of penetration. Double Tap's 200 gr. wide flat point pushed at 1150 fps. shoots through three 2.5 gallon water jugs placed end to end. That's about 36 inches of penetration. The only jacketed bullets I know of in the .44 Magnum that can match this are those bullets designed for .444 Marlin velocities.
Second, as far as "speed of recovery" goes in a shooting, it only matters to those that compete in matches. On the street, frankly, one of the biggest mistakes made is literally shooting too fast. Only hits count, not how fast those rounds are fired. The other thing is that if one or two central mass hits don't do the job, you'll need to stop, and put the bullet into the head. Almost impossible to do if you are doing your best to get your rounds on target as fast as possible like you would in a match.
Another thing is that the ammo companies abandon the 10mm as a combat round because they thought they could do better with a lighter gun in a higher pressure load than the watered down 10mm load in a heavier gun. So we got the 40 S&W. Smith and Wesson's 40, the 4006 is lighter and does hold more rds. One more. One only. And you have to put up with a more critical to load round in the process. No thanks. E

I have shot 40 gr H110 405 gr cast 2.1" in 45 Colt brass with large rifle primer in a .410 shotgun.

45 Colt brass is very strong... except the wimpy rim.

None that I'm aware of. Nor do any issue the .44 or .41 Magnums to my knowledge.
No, I wouldn't hunt any kind of bears with a .357 Magnum. Nor would I hunt Black Bears with the 200 gr. wide flat point Double Tap bullet. But to shoot into the skull of a grizzly, either the .357, 180 gr. wide, flat point cast or the 200 gr. wide, flat point cast load in the 10mm should work. E

Of course, I don't see a whole lot of difference between the 9 and the 45 either, real-world, I mean.

I will have to challenge that. Shoot, side by side, a Browning High Power in 9mm and a 1911 (standard size, all steel) in .45 ACP. Very noticeable difference in recovery time and felt recoil.

Actually we were talking about the 10mm vs. the .45 ACP.
Frankly, in my book, you are a fool to hunt grizzlys with any handgun unless you have a guy with a heavy rifle backing you up.
As far as getting the job done with a head shot, I'm confident it, the 10mm would work. I understand that Phil Shoemaker seems to think that a .357 loaded with Federal's hard cast 180 gr. bullets will work. He, of course, carries his old reliable .458 Win for serious defense against big bears. E

Another thing is that the ammo companies abandon the 10mm as a combat round because they thought they could do better with a lighter gun in a higher pressure load than the watered down 10mm load in a heavier gun. So we got the 40 S&W. Smith and Wesson's 40, the 4006 is lighter and does hold more rds.

~shrugs~Maybe I wasn't clear. I know there's a difference in recoil, as far as personal perceived recoil, I can't tell a lot of difference. Part of it could be that I tend to shoot 45 autos for pleasure more than my 9's. As such, lots of times I'm shooting standard ball ammo or not-real-hot reloads with the 45. With the 9, I'm usually shooting hot, bordering on real hot stuff.

In the case of the .45 ACP and most other handgun cartridges pressure is incidental and important only as a factor in bolt thrust. Parts will start breaking down due to bolt thrust long before a barrel suffers pressure damage.

The top handguns during the development of the .45 ACP ran at around 3,500 lbs. of thrust. My guess is that Browning used that as his design limit. Since the .451" diameter was already mandated the pressure was limited by default.

Now when it comes to grizzly bears gents, I will agree 100% with "Eremicus", this critters are faster than you can imagine and can soak up lead like a spronge does water.

I have personally seen what grizzly can do and the effects of 4 men shooting at it while it charged. Only a brain shot stopped that bear that day and the other 6 shots that hit didn't even slow him down. No sir! I want a damn big rifle facing one of those charging bears and the minmum pistol caliber for me would be the .44mag........pray I never had to use it too.

Now on subject, the 10mm is more versital than the .45acp, it shoots faster, flatter and will expand a HP bullet out to 3/4 of an inch and also out penetrate the .45acp.

Bolt thrust is a really bad term. Its really an impulse. thrust is the stuff rockets and jets use. rate of change of mass with respect to time. Which configuration--- a 22 conversion kit used on a kimber 45 frame? not alot except ones a blow back and the other doesn't. Again an apples and orange comparison. How about something like a browning hp with side cuts that won't take the pressure without splitting when compared to a barsto in a 1911 configuration? A little more to the point.