Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Solving The Wolf Problem

Glock I think you've made a fair characterization about my politics, which I suppose leaves me in the minority here. I enjoy reading posts on the campfire - I appreciate learning from those more knowledgeable than I am about firearms and hunting techniques, I like reading other members' hunting stories, and I find the political posts very enlightening. All in all I really like this and other hunting forums. I just find it unfortunate that they are so dominated by right-wing ideology, since hunting and outdoor activities seem politically agnostic to me and both sides of the spectrum bring value to the table. To generalize, it seems that our Republican friends speak best for private landowners while Democrats stand up most often for the public domain.

That said, I marvel at the self-reinforcing political hate speech so often found here. As an outsider to tea-party politics I can see how the echo chamber works, and the only thing I find entertaining about it is the incredible illiberal political correctness you impose on anyone you disagree with. You think you are immune to political correctness because the term was coined by the right, but you march in lock-step here just a surely as my most liberal friends.

I care deeply about protecting healthy working landscapes, our public lands and both game and nongame wildlife, even more than I care about my own hunting opportunities, and I think that is what sets my views apart from some others expressed here (the more illiberal ones anyway). Some of you might be surprised to hear that I agree with the fiscal responsibility of the Republican party but the social conservatism doesn't resonate for me. I see why some people are drawn to the tea party - hey, it's all about you! and your money (no taxes!), your values (the bible!), your rights (my gun!) and your freedom (don't tread on me!). But I am alarmed by the extreme tea-party ideas attempting to gain traction in this country right now, and I believe if you continue with it America truly will begin to decline because we will collapse into self-indulgent ignorance and alienation. I just hope the tea party has reached its peak and will soon collapse back into the dim recesses of our political dialog.

Meanwhile, to get back on topic, the wolf "problem" is just a symptom of the narcissism of modern politics. Illiberal ranchers and sagebrush rebels are just as responsible for the wolf problem as the animal rights groups because neither side will allow a compromise that accepts wolves as an ecological member of the community. If you really care about elk, moose and deer then get serious and demand that our politicians and resource managers to craft a compromise that will lead to state management this year. For all the arm-waving about the "decimation" of our game herds, there are still lots of ungulates and few predators. Let's get some tools and find the balance. So sez me. I gotta go eat some antelope steaks.

You think mighty highly of yourself.

Self righteous dumbphuck.

Even though I'm Tea Party lovin', Ron Paul kind of guy, the above paragraph pretty much sums up the District Court decision--the court had no alternative but to follow the law.

But then again, I've already posted about Wyoming several times...........

It's important to note proposed legislation in Congress that would change the status of the wolf and hand over management to Idaho and Montana, pointedly leaves out Wyoming.

Name calling does nothing Sam.

Really?? Laws are to be "enforced by the courts"??? Just where in our Constitution is that since you are the expert on our system of government? Maybe our problem is that our favorite judge thinks of himself as a quasi-dictator that knows better than the rest of us so gets to make up regulations about wolves and game management all by himself? Seems to me that the this judge has grabbed way too much power and that we need to change that. No one person, no matter how smart he thinks he is, deserves that kind of power. Our federal and state elected officials have totally abdicated their responsibility by letting this guy get away with the rulings he has made. Judges are not suppose to "enforce" laws or make up rules and regulations. We have a broken judicial system. If the courts were controlled by ultra-conservatives instead of ultra-liberals that you agree with, I think you would be crying a different tune.

addendum - I just read the latest round of posts and you guys crack me up! Talk about the echo chamber! Where you from? Not from here 'cuz if you were you wouldn't express your ideas so carefully - you'd be as angry and ignorant as us! Whoo-ee! Well cracker boys I'm less interested in reasoning with you as I am in exploring ideas with the many other members who read these posts but don't shoot their mouths off at the hip, which I guess you must do because your mouths spend so much time at waist height ha ha!

Seriously, to answer your thoughtful questions I was born in New Jersey to a mixed race gay couple, but I was raised in France and educated in a madrassa there. I just live in Montana because I relate so strongly to intellectuals like foogle and mtmuley. Sorry if my words hurt your head.

Facts are facts.

Plattski is a transplanted dumbphuck.

The scope of this conversation is broader than the West. Wolves introduced to the North Woods (Minnesota, Wisconsin and Michigan's Upper Peninsula) have raised concerns as well. Predation on deer populations mirrors some of the previous discussion, but I hear as much concern about perceptions of increasingly aggressive wolf behavior. Wolves are smart critters. They've figured out their protected status. I'm a bit concerned that we may be inadvertently "teaching" these alpha predators lessons we may come to regret.

PC

SamOlson, also a thoughtful reader. Sam, I'm not sure why you consider it a "dumbphuck" character flaw to possess an ethical code and personal value system, or to attempt to share said values in the interest of a constructive dialog. Too bad, you're probably a fun guy to talk with when you're not posing for your friends on the Internet. I'll bet most of you are.

They don't need to compromise, nor do they need to craft anything different than what the original plan called for--which was when wolves and wolf packs reached a number established by the USFWS, wolf management would be turned over to the respective states when they submitted a plan(s) approved by USFWS.

Unfortunately, Wyoming's plan was a farce. Even then, the USFWS sort of "bent the rules" and allowed Idaho and Montana to go forward with their mangaement plans--including sport hunting of wolves, without Wyoming. But that wasn't how state wolf management was originally proposed--all three states had to be on board--and the environmental groups called the USFWS on it--and won.

I don't entirely agree with Malloy''s ruling. It seems the Court is using Threatened/Endangered status to make it's ruling, when the wolves in the Northern Rockies are listed as Experimental, and does not fall under the statutory requirements of Endangered/Threatened.

I read your posts.

You are a self righteous 'dumbphuck', with ZERO grasp or understanding.

I'm not posing. The little yappy know it all wolf lover uncle from 'France' almost got his ass kicked in my parent's kitchen last Summer.

I look at issues from other's point of view. Certain people don't and they remain 'dumbphucks'.

Sorry to hijack your rant VG.

Maybe he takes seriously what he and his family have been doing for a living the past 100 years right here in Montana and is easily annoyed by someone like you who only sees one side of the coin through obvious tunnel vision.....your true colors are easily exposed....keep going.

Wolves in the Upper Midwest established themselves without any help from humans. Think Isle Royale.......

That's the spirit!........

Pat, cabin fever must been setting in....grin

How many head of livestock have you lost to wolves, Sam?

Scenar what makes you think I only see one side of the issue? That is my whole point, VG's ranting is one-sided and I was offering a different perspective. Don't imagine that I don't understand both sides of the issue when I try to take one or the other. And don't assume anything about me since you have no idea who I am.

Just because a guy is part of a family that has lived in the same place for 100 years doesn't give him any special authority to tell other people what is right because they've only lived there for 10 or 1. What about the native people of Montana with families that have lived here for 1000 years? Do you let them tell you or Sam what is right or how to live? No, of course you don't. Your bona fides based on "native" Montanan status are just fun talk to make yourselves feel more important than you are. I can respect ranchers for their knowledge about a particular place, but I don't assume they are any better at or more capable of making decisions than anyone else in modern America.

First, I'm not among those who say we should have no wolves. I'm just frustrated that local authorities (including our own DNR) have no say on managing them. Second, you're misinformed about human involvement vis-a-vis wolves in the Northwoods...at least in the U.P. I know one of the pilots who was contracted to fly additional wolves into our area some years ago. But my beef isn't with how wolves got here, or even that they're here at all. I simply think they'll need to be managed by people, just like our other natural resources. And Finally, I've become convinced that if excessive legal protection (my perspective) isn't moderated, wolves are likely to be "managed" illegally, and in fact, already are.

PC

Zero Casey. Same answer I gave you when you asked in a PM last year.

Wolves ain't a problem here.

Not sure where you're headed with the question but I will say this.

Montana stockmen like to look out for each other. Wolves in the west half of the state might not be 'our' problem but we sure as hell aren't gonna go along with it just because the Disney gang thinks it's a great idea.

There is a better way ,Trap them all send them to washington or good old sunny calf. to help controll the crap there should work