Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 45-70 shot loads

I was reading a Handloader mag that was sitting around at work today. It had artical about shot loads for revolvers. I have heard about this type of thing before but never considered doing it untill now. I use a Marlin 45-70 GG for some of my hunting and informal guiding of friends and family. I have shot lots of grouse with it for dinner but with a 350g going nearly 2000fps it allways seems a little silly, even if a clean shot is made and no meat is wasted. I am thinking that a shot load for the 45-70 is in order. I am guessing that preformance near that of a 410 is possible, shot pattern may suck but at close range it should be ok. Rounds would have to be loaded single shot into the pipe but this is not a big deal.
Has any one done this, and if so is it even useable for grouse type ranges. What powder,shot wad ect. would be appropriate? I would like a good payload of pellets and low noise but enough power to knock a grouse over. Any experience?

Marlin .450 will cycle .410 shells. So a 45/70 brass loaded with shot should work.

I haev done it. I forget the exact powder load. I use a .410 shot cup. It is a little small, but you wrap it with one layer of 3x5 card stock and it will just barely slide into a 45-70 case then. There was an article years ago in one of the mags, that I followed. I beliuec I put a 1/16" thick disc of cork over the powder, set the shot cup and pellets, then a cork disc over the shot cup, put on a slight crimp,then sealed it with wax

I think Mike M is onto something. A long time ago, and maybe even today, folks with the old Trapdoor Springfields often shot .410 shotshells in them. The extractor on those old guns would usually pull the shell out after firing, too - depending on condition of the gun of course. You may well be able to use plain ol' .410 2.5" shotshells without any alteration, and for single shots, I believe they'd work. Just not sure about the extractor. Don't have any 2.5" .410's around the house or would go try one out the back door just to see for myself if they'd work in the Guide Gun.

However, I really think you'll be disappointed in the pattern. Those 2.5" shells only carry @ 1/2 oz. of shot, and I'd surely use #9's if it were me, even on squirrels. Up close they'll work fine. They just won't hold energy well "out there," but you won't have that kind of pattern anyway.

I have an old 32 ga. SxS and the left barrel is a cylinder bore. It too shoots 1/2 oz. of shot, and a quail at 15 yds. could be centered in the pattern and not be hit all the time. That ain't exactly encouraging, but the rifling in the Marlin should be even worse, likely as not, so be sure to pattern them before you try them. I have an idea that your best results MAY come with a handload of #9's with a .410 wad and all the shot you can cram into the shell. Use an overshot wad and crimp it in place with your roll crimp die. Precision Reloading kinda' specializes in everything for shotgunning, and may be able to help you here.

You can check them out at:

http://www.precisionreloading.com

The Contenders for shotshells use a straight rifled "choke" tube on the front end to stop the shot charge from spinning, and thus spreading too rapidly.

FWIW, I was recently talking to a buddy about shot loads in pistols, and he swears by a CCI shot cap full of airgun type steel BB's. Says they're the real deal. You might try them, too, and see how they do. I think the faster you drive the shotshells, the more they'll spread, due to that rifling thing, but haven't messed with this in a long time now, and my memory of same is pretty discombobulated now. Wish I could help more. Just DANG that ol' CRS disease anyhow!

Post back, if you don't mind. I think there are some of us here who'd appreciate the info, and maybe it'll jog my memory, too.

The .450 has a band around the base of the cartridge for 'no 45/70' mix ups. The base on a 45/70 cartridge must be the thickness equal to a factory .410. The .450 band keeps them from chambering in a 45/70.

I thought the safari hunters with double rifles also used them for shot loads, some type of a full brass load. Noticed a magazine article awhile back, may have been a .416 double gun.

The .410 loads in the contender .45/.410 barrels use rifled barrels with removable chokes on a pistol barrel.

I use 2.5" .410 plastic shot cups to make shot shells for my .444. Have yet to shoot anything with them (couldn't find any ptarmigan while I was caribou hunting last fall), but they pattern pretty well at 25 or 30 feet. Definitely require single loading, but for the purpose that doesn't really matter.

Is your Guide Gun ported? I would think that might make a difference, but I don't actually know.

Don't think I want to be shooting any steel BB's down my rifle bores, shot cup or not.

Experimenting with the shotshell idea is kinda fun... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My Dad made up some shot loads for his trapdoor one time.He put a 45 cal gas check on top of his powder(cup side up of course) then his shot to near the top.Then another gas check on top(cup side down) then just enough crimp to hold it all together.No doubt he was using blackpowder though.I believe this load is in Wolf's book on loading the trapdoor 45/70.I will check and see if there is a reference to smokeless loads if you want.

Ok how does this sound putting the best guess's into one. A tight fitting wad of some sort over the powder(type of powder?), then a paper patched 410 shot cup, a bunch of #9 lead shot then a gas check over the works with a roll crimp. I think I would like to try this, would have to weigh up the shot and try to use as much as possible, give it a charge of fast burning powder to hit 900 fps?
I am headed to Vietnam next week so I won't have time to try this for a while so keep the suggestions/ experiences comming.

I did almost exactly the same thing you are mentioning years ago. I used 15 grains of red dot. Used in a trapdoor Springfield. At 20 feet I would be lucky to get a pellet or two of shot into a fist sized target.

Using 2 1/2 410 shotshells really improved the range. To thirty feet. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

BCR

I've wondered about having the barrel on my guide gun threaded to to except the choke from my 45/. 410 Thompson Center barrel. It seems I've also seen shot capsules offered for reloading 45 long colt. I'm thinking that by being able to extend the shot column out into the chamber farther, a more effective load could be developed.
John

Buy a 94/10. It'll shoot 410's without damaging a 45/70 or your face. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />