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Campfire 'Bwana
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Pat, why no M7 builds? Thanks!


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HR IC

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No..Sometimes it's the only route to get what you want.

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Campfire Kahuna
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#1, they tend not to feed as well as I like, and #2, they are not as consistant in accuracy as my favorite action. I AM NOT SLIGHTING THE MODEL SEVEN. As, stated it is up to an individual to determine what their priorities are.


The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Serious question - has anyone ever sold a custom and gotten out of it what they put into it? I have always heard that you can never expect to approach your cost if you decide to sell and wondered if anyone had any real-world figures from their experience. Thanks, John


Not a real member - just an ordinary guy who appreciates being able to hang around and say something once in awhile.

Happily Trapped In the Past (Thanks, Joe)

Not only a less than minimally educated person, but stupid and out of touch as well.
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Originally Posted by 5sdad
Serious question - has anyone ever sold a custom and gotten out of it what they put into it? I have always heard that you can never expect to approach your cost if you decide to sell and wondered if anyone had any real-world figures from their experience. Thanks, John


Only ones I bought used.


IC B2

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Campfire Kahuna
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No, just like buying (or selling) a rifle scope combo, what is perfect to you is just another gun to somebody else. Correction, I have had rifles built out of dirt cheap "parts" that guys have wanted too much for me to refuse their offers.


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Yes. I owned a custom 9.3mm X 57 rifle for a time. It recoiled about like a lightweight 30-06 but killed elk no better than my moderate recoil .308 carbine. So I sold my custom for a tiny profit.

TR


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Originally Posted by Big8
I figure he may crack someday and let the world see these wonderful Remingtons of his..Grin

B8


Oh he has cracked already

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I have sold a couple of customs and broke even, but I picked up the parts really cheap! That is always a plus, to sniff around and feed off the misfortunate ;o).

I regretted a couple of builds, but only because I wasn't happy with the smith's rummy work and poor turn-a-round time.

I had one smith take 4 years to complete my rifle. I told him to just mail the parts back to me. He suddenly "lost them". I called the holding company etc. What a clustermuff of lies and B.S. That one nearly went to litigation, before they finally sent it back to me. I have never seen someone lie so much and believe themselves as that smith did. Once I got it back, it had the wrong magazine follower in it (it was a Sako, they sent a Remington). I bought a new follower and it went down the road in a hurry. I didn't want any memory of that red headed step child. I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. Flinch


Flinch Outdoor Gear broadhead extractor. The best device for pulling your head out.
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I say if you can afford it and want something built JUST FOR YOU..DO IT !

IC B3

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Regret-yes

Sold it and regretted it even more. I couldn't live with letting someone else spend their money on a big mistake. So I took it back and return their money. Took it apart and sold the pieces I didn't reuse.

However you learn from your mistakes, or atleast you should learn from them.

As for what you can get in resale really depends on what you have (all things concidered) and how bad someone else wants that. I have sold for a profit, I have sold and broke even, I have sold and lost a little bit, but got good enjoyment for the loss, and I have flatout lost on one.


Eat Fish, Wear Grundens, Drink Alaskan.
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I built my first custom recently and I do regret it somewhat. I sold off two amazing shooters and three scopes and other various things to make this happen.

I think the critical factor in the slight regret that I feel is that this project was beyond my means. So now I have this awesome rifle that doesn't even have it's own scope. I had to borrow my best scope off another rifle to put on it. That kind of stuff.

Tom

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No, I only have the one and it is just what I want.

The only problem is it has set the bar so high I have never bought a second bolt action rifle for myself...

I have bought 2 Remington 700BDLs for my sons to use... and they do.

If that is a regret, well, then well I have one.


That which does not kill us makes us stronger

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By all means, learn all you can about anyone who is doing the work. Talk to previous customers, shoot his rifles, etc.
My first two were designed by me. They worked OK, but they were too heavy. Didn't pay attention to the small things that add weight. One of the scopes had too little eye box, especially at more than 4X. A custom stock for another wasn't stiff enough to use with a shooting sling in spite of McMillian's assurances.
My 3rd., was designed with what I wanted but the parts were the decision of the guy doing the work. Got exactly what I wanted. It did need a little adjusting, but they often do. One of my others needed it's stock lenthend for it's new scope and lighter mounts. Still another needed a different magazine box when I decided to go back to a BDL design rather than an ADL design. Alot like factory rifles. You got to run a while to see what they need changed.
I'd also add that a custom barrel often needs less cleaning and they clean up much easier. You can order any contour you want or lenth. That alone makes them worth it to me. E

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The only time I've regretted spending money on a custom is when I didn't spend enough money to get a competent smith build me exactly what I wanted. Several times I thought I could get a "custom" for the price of a factory rifle by starting with a military mauser, every time I ended up with a heavy sloppy crude gun that didn't even measure up to a good factory rifle.

Custom rifles mean alot of things to alot of people, but I can assure you that getting a good well balanced rifle properly assembled to shoot as accurately as is mechanically possible is money that will be well spent. You'll never learn what you are capable of if you use compromised equipment. The average shooter at the range is a mediocre to poor shot, but it isn't hard at all to be shooting sub moa consistantly.

This has been driven home to me in a crystal clear fashion when I got my kids quality wares to start with, and saw how quickly their groups shrank. They shoot factory rifles, but rifles that are set up to shoot accurately, so they will learn precision shooting.

You don't have to go the custom route to get that, you can get 80-90% of the way there with a good factory rifle. If you don't have a good quality 223 or 243, then by all means start by getting a remingtion 700 sps stainless in either of the two chamberings, top it with a leupy 6X42 w/ an elevation turret, plop it in a ti handle and get 500 cases so you can run 1000's of rounds through it. You'll get further faster with that combo than getting some sort of custom to dabble with. When you've either burned out the barrel or find the gun is holding you back, have a fast twist light contour barrel fit by an accuracy minded smith and have it chambered in 223 ai or 243 ai, and continue.


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I put a Shilen match barrel on mine and am happy I spent the extra $100 dollars at the time. If I do another it will be in 223 or 223AI in varmint weight. It has been years since the last one so I would have to research the barrel makers that are available in Canada. I would probably spend the bucks for a Clarke action. Cheesh now you guys have me thinking....

Randy

Last edited by medicman; 03/23/11. Reason: typos

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Originally Posted by WyoJoe
Originally Posted by Sportdog
I see there are a lot of guys on this forum who invest in either a self designed or for some...//...just your individual thoughts and experience. Thanks.


I would rather have 1 custom rifle than a wall full of off the shelf factory guns.


Amen Brother, Amen!

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Campfire 'Bwana
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There have been 2 'smiths with whom I have had unfailingly great results; Ray Montgomery in Grand Junction, CO, and Ahlman's in Morristown, MN.

There are several 'smiths with whom I will not do business, for a variety of reasons, but mostly because they went off-plan and didn't bother to consult with me prior to making decisions that varied from the original specs sheet on a previous build. I once had a 'smith use a different barrel, from a differnt barrel vendor, in a different length. To me that is a pretty significant varience to plan. To him it was just business as usual. Oh, BTW, I supplied the original barrel, so I had to pay for the replacement barrel and I had a heck of a time getting the original barrel back. The original barrel was a new Douglas XX air-gaged stainless in the Douglas #2 contour that was to finished at 23" The replacement barrel was a Hart #2 that was finished at 22". Not a significant difference, but there was nothing wrong with the new Douglas barrel and, besides, he didn't ask me about making the change and the $300+/- additional cost, he just did it.

I think that you need to work with a 'smith who you trust and that you have a contract-like spec sheet that both you and the 'smith sign, as a vehicle for confirming your agreement on specs, price, and the process and costs for any changes. Change orders are where big contractors make their $$, so you need to be 100% sure of your plan before you contract to have the work done.

I have heard lots of good things, but very few bad things, about Mel Forbes at NULA and hope to have him build a couple of CLR-NULA hybrids for me this year. I'm thinking 9.3x62 and either 7x57 or 6.5x55 using NULA components around the CLR actions.

JEff

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BMW or Ford both get you down the road

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Originally Posted by Big Stick
1) Twist. It's rate determines the length of the projectile,which the rifle will stabilize. Stabilization is a factor of RPM,which is a melding of twist rate and velocity. A 9" twist Hornet will not stabilize a bullet as great in length,as a 22-284Win. Due to velocity increasing RPM.

With increased projectile length,comes increased BC and that correlates to more retained speed,less drift and less drop as distance from the muzzle increases. A faster twist rate(smaller number in inches),allows options that a slower twist simply cannot...due to projectile selection.

Factories are agog,in purposely badly botching twist rates. I get a giggle outta the Nosler Custom Rifle in 22-250,being twisted 1-14" for but a smattering of the boolits they actually manufacture. Most others do it too,but a damned boolit maker oughtta savvy such things,more than others. CLASSIC Bean Counter brainfart.

2) Throat. It determines the length of the loaded round,in relationship to where the rifling engages the ogive.

Bumbling idjuts like Jeff-O love to botch this one and it was long her pet Theorum,that one needed to "long throat" a 7-08 for 162's. [bleep] loved that one!(grin)

All boolits have varying amounts of bearing surface and it's location varies widely from tip to ogive. Long/sleek boolits of modest bearing surface(the 162),will actually require a shorter throat,to cajole a given COAL,as compared to a lesser weight offering,of less sleek design/lower BC/greater bearing surface.

3) COAL constraints. That is the max available length inherent the platform,to accept a loaded round within magazine box confines and function as a repeater. Exceed that dimension,by botching the throat and you toss available performance away.

A bolt action single shot,do not horn me up...though many are quick to arrange same,by dropping the ball.


So harmony is a juggling act,which is also factored by the chambering proper. With a clear understanding of cause/affect,one can easily craft a right proper zinger,that'll ring ALL bells. To do less,is pissing performance away.

Case in point,as per the following pic: The magboxes to the left are s/a 700's,the right a l/a. In the first box to the left,are a pair of chamberings,sharing like case capacity,but a GREAT discrepency in their COAL latitude,due solely to case length. That void kicks one outta da berries and the other one ring all the bells,easily. The lesser height case is a 22-250AI,the greater a Swift. Add a 1-8" 3-grooved spout,kiss a 75A-Max at a COAL that easily fits the mag box,doesn't discount lesser weights and don't slam the door on heavier ones...and you is immediately in tall cotton. Win/win...while the Swift sucks heavy ass in comparison.

Same goes the middle box of the trio. The chamberings are again of like capacity,yet starkly different COAL latitude,due solely to case length. The lesser height is a 243AI,the greater a 6mmRem. Don't take more than an IQ of 17,to see which grants more opportunity and more importantly why.

[Linked Image]


Schits makin' sense now...ain't it?!!?.....................(grin)


Wish someone would have presented the above with like certitude when I was a noob. Would have saved time, effort and coin. Well illustrated to boot.

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