Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire career decisions, Kalifornia???

A weird question for the campfire but I know some of you have faced the same decision. Just finished my MBA and have a potential job in Modesto. I don't get too excited at the thought of moving to Kali. but it starts in the low six figures and may be a good chance to catch up some school debt.

I have about 5 years experience as a psych RN and the Modesto job is as a manager at a psych hospital so it's a good fit. I just wonder if it's worth giving up my Idaho/Utah quality of life and hunting to advance my career. It's getting close to time to make a decision so, do I hold out and hope to find something in a more hunter friendly state or make the move to P.R.O. Kali. Does any one know of any job opps in a place where people still believe the constitution matters???

Thanks,
Bb

BB,
There is some pretty good deer and bear hunting not too far from Modesto. There is also some great trout fishing in the Sierras, and camping and hiking opportunities are abundant.

You will most likely find that most of Kalifornistan is not bad at all, as long as you stay away from the coasts.

It may not be too bad a time to be getting into a place like Central KA. Real estate prices have been going up like gangbusters in the Metro areas, and it's starting to spill into the central valley. THe valley has been lagging behind in recent years, and many think that it will be the next area to really take off as some fo the metro areas start to become unaffordable. If you're looking at a shorter term emplyment (less than 10 years), you could do very well for yourself in appreciation of real estate alone.

I'd suggest looking at the cost of living, housing, etc.
We had a bunch of executives here in Richmond transferred from Richmond to Boston, 20 some odd years ago.
The executives went up there to look at houses and schools, came back and suggested that the company would have to triple their salaries to have the same quality of life, that they had in Richmond. A $100,000 house in Richmond was $300,000 in Boston. The private schools were equally expensive. Taxes, income, sales and real estate taxes were rather enthusiastic.
Once everything got worked out where the company paid for condos in Boston and paid for the executives fly out on Monday and fly back on Friday.
Jim

When looking at a salary, you have to also factor in taxes and cost of living, ie housing. My way of thinking is, if I could work somewhere for 2-3 years and make enough to be completely debt free, including paying off a house where I want to live, then I'd work most anywhere. For me, that would be a overseas job working tax free, and having all my living expenses paid, at the salary your looking at. By the time you pay fed taxes, state income, state sales tax, property tax, high vehicle reg fees, hou$ing, etc, etc, a six figure income in California isn't that great of a salary.

The central valley of California is hot dry and dusty. Most of the affordable housing has been built in a flood plane. You don't get the nice weather California is known for, nor any of the scenic or historicly interesting areas. Yes, you'll be a couple hours away from some interesting places.

My thought is, life is too short to live in a crappy place. Work is a means of paying for what I enjoy in life, not a means to an end that trumps all else.

Well, as a native Kali here is my advice. If you got an offer for 6 figures in Modesto, get your butt over here and sweat it out for five years. Get into a house now, it will cost you more than you can imagine but will very likely rise in value as more Bay Area people move out there. After five years if you hate it, you should have enough savings and equity to move and be all set. Prices in Central CA are not near as bad as the more "desirable" areas. Course there is the property taxes, income taxes, sales tax, car reg tax, no black rifles, no 10+ round clips, no 50 BMGs, earthquakes, Arnold, the traffic, the smog..........ah hell it ain't so bad. Come on over, we'll make room!

NoCAL

458,
I'm not sure whether you've lived in the central valley or not, but the cost of living is not that exorbitant for KA. The Bay area is just plain stupid, So Cal is mostly ridiculous, The Sacramento/Roseville/Folsom/ Elk Grove area is going nuts, but the central valley remains one of the bargains in KA.

It will get a little hotter than the coasts, but the weather in the central valley is really nice most of the year.

As for the flood plain, maybe in some parts of the state, but not Modesto. Here is the FEMA flood map, notice no hazard areas anywhere in or immediatley around Modesto:

You haven't told us of your other offers.................If you only got one choice then that's easy. What kind of money can you get in Juneau, AK, or somewhere near where you LIKE to live ?

$90,000 in "Paradise" beats $150,000 in Modesto easy, heck it's probably more money at the end of the day anyway !

CAS,

No I never lived in the central valley, we almost bought a house there because it was the only affordable housing, while working in the Bay Area! but the thought of a daily 130 mile commute just did that plan in. Central valley housing is less expensive, because it isn't a desireable place to live, plain and simple. I did drive through while on the way to desireable places to visit.

It's one thing if one is in CA and has to make the best of it, it's another thing if one is currently living in a better location and considering their options. I say do the math and see if the numbers add up for you. I don't think CA salarys are that much greater than other areas after factoring in the added taxes on a higher salary and COL.

You know, if you grew up in Burley, Modesto ain't going to be so bad. When you start a career, chances are you are going to buckle down and spend most of the time working, anyway.

The difference in pay will allow you to pay off debt, establish equity, and still have money left over to do a guided hunt anywhere you want, every year. Heck, I spent four years in Texas, and I survived that, just fine.

(now, where is my nomex suit..... LOL!)

Dutch.

Why blame all of California when most of the problems come from a few areas. Los Angeles, San Diego, Sacramento and the immediate San Francisco area(Oakland, San Jose, Etc.) are the places to stay away from. In California you can have any climate condition that can be found in any other state. The fishing is wide and varied. the odds of the next World Record Largemouth Bass will likely come from California(and not from Southern California like many believe), Trout(many varieties), Salmon, salt water and the list goes on and on. Hunting is great. Mule and Blacktail Deer, a Black Bear population second only to Alaska, 3 varieties of Elk(Roosevelt, Rocky Mountain and Tule), Pronghorn Antelope, Bighorn Sheep and a Wild Boar population that is getting out of hand. Add to that the small game and bird hunting(Turkey hunting is getting nothing but better every year - population is on the rise) one needs never to get bored. There are still many things about the "Golden State" that are still Golden. Lawdog
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

you forgot about the life sentence you'll recieve for stepping on the blunt nose lizard,kit fox or the giant kangaroo rat among others........I live in the central valley a few hours away from modesto.......life isn't too bad here......you'll be a couple hours from some good fishing and hunting areas in the sierra's and a couple hours from some good ocean fishing.......where else can you go scuba diving in the ocean in the morning and snow skiing in the afternoon @ sierra summit (winter only....LOL......)...you'll have blacktail deer to hunt in the hottest part of the year and when it cools down you can go for a nice mulie.if your lucky enough to get drawn there is elk,antalope and sheep.......and this place is packed with hogs.........and don't forget all california women are blonde haired blue eyed beauties.......at least thats what some australian go told me......LOL.....good luck in your decision.

My best alternative offer at this point is working for the family business in Burley, ID for about 72k a year. I've always been independent and made my own way and have reservations about working with family. Burley isn't exactly a social Mecca for single adults so I would be headed to SLC or Boise on the weekends, except during hunting season. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

My MBA is in marketing so I am not limited to health care and could pursue other options. My class average salary for jobs in Utah has been in the mid 70's. I think I'd rather make 70 in Utah than 110 in Modesto but the MBA job market is a bit tight here.

Thanks for all the comments,
Bb

I went into the family business for less money than I could have made elsewhere. There are it's challenges, but also some very real benefits.

Using a cost of living calculator, besed on Boise for your current residence and Fresno as the prospective residence (close enough to Modesto economically), you'd be ahead based solely on numbers given the salaries you describe to move to KA.


Cost of Living Calculator

It's not the kind of decision you need to agonize over. It's only a job, and if you don't like it, you can leave in a year or two, without hurting your career at all. You may find that you like it a lot... or not.

There are some great online cost of living calculators.... let you scale from one area to another.

I think the SLC area is too congested for my tastes, but, then so are the places that I grew up in Idaho.

WOW!!!! I could live in missouri for a little over half as much as I make here.........

That's a good link Charlie. A couple [bleep] points to consider though.

1) Fresno is going to have a slightly higher cost of housing than Modesto.

2) I find it very, very difficult to believe that groceries are going to cost you 40% more in Fresno than in Boise.

So IMHO the cost of living is going to be closer than reflected.

Burleyboy,

Just because you work in Modesto, doesn't mean you live in Modesto. Join the rest of Kalifornia and do a commute. Many people that work in the eastern portions of the valley live in the foothills. 30-45 minutes one way can make a big difference.

I live NE of Sac, and believe me, there's a whole lot of difference in lifestyles in those 45 miles. Our community has a 230 acre private lake filled with cooperative bass, too many deer (no hunting permitted) and a great view of the stars at night.

And while I've passed through Modesto any number of times (just last weekend in fact) I can't tell you much about it. It just seems to be one of the typical San Joaquin Valley mid sized cities. Working towns. No pretensions. Might be hard to socialize at first. See what others have said about fishing/hunting opportunities. You can stay in the field all year long.

Tough decision. It sounds like it could make for a great five year plan. But you got to watch out. Those five year plans have a way of turning into a lifetime...

Before you leave ID though, I'd get a lifetime hunting/fishing license if they offer such a thing.

Regards,
Scott

P.S. - I doubt that Modesto is any more liberal than the rest of the valley outside of Sac, Fresno and Bake-O. Solid Red (for Republican) country

Wow, I'd have to make 99% more in San Francisco than I do here in Idaho Falls, just to break even. But, I suppose I would get to enjoy the "big city amenities", such as no parking, muggings, panhandlers, pollution, traffic congestion, car thefts, etc, etc, etc.

I think I'll stay put..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Dutch.

Scott,
No argument with either of those points. Unfortunately all the calculators only use the large cities for comparisons.

I know some people have long cmmutes, but I like the fact that from my front door to my desk is about 6 minutes at the time of morning I leave for work.

Dutch,
Actually it's not all that bad. San Francisco has very little pollution, it all gets blown to us in the Sac Valley.

The gun laws alone would rule it out for me. Old habits die hard, and I don't want to live someplace where the government doesn't trust me with a loaded handgun or rifle that is nearly always available during my travels, or where I'd be reading for days trying to figure out what I can do and what I can't do, what guns I'd have to ditch, etc. And while I'm sure that there are fine rural areas to recreate in California, most of the law, policy and "attitude" is dictated by the state's urban population centers. I've seen enough of that in the people who have been immigrating to my neighbor state to the south.

While it's true that no move is permanent, even a few years out of your life cannot be retrieved. I don't know your age, so I don't know if that could matter. Further, although your local area may not be a mecca for singles, you could effectively be in a drought if the area to which you relocate has insufficient like minded females.

The salary differential doesn't seem that great to me. I'd hold out for something closer to your "perfect world" scenario, at least until the point where your MBA is going to be viewed as "stale" if you don't land a position dependent upon it.

One comment on commuting, your time is worth $ (priceless in my mind) and gas ain't free. An extra 1 hour a day commuting and say extra 40 miles a day in the car is lets say an extra $100 a month for fuel, and if you figure your time is worth at least what your hourly pay is, that's ~$60/hr for 20 hours of your time a month in the car, thats $1200 a month worth of your time.

So, you pay for the house "savings" by your commute. Something most people never factor in.

In regards to working for a family business, man that's a tough one and depends on your family. Family business's can often lead to the family member who is the employer thinking, this employee is asking for too much money, too much time off and isn't working hard enough because he is family. The employee can have the reciprocal feelings of, just because I'm family the boss thinks he can pay me less, work me harder and persuade me not to take vacations because I'm family. Now if you have great family and couldn't think of better folks to work for, and they'll really take care of you, it could be a great deal.

For the flip side of the Cali coin, there's something to be said for spending some time in a place where you have the perspective, it really is better where I came from.

Now as far as where else can you scuba dive in the morning, and ski in the afternoon, Alaska! Better yet, you can catch a halibut in the morning, and the slopes are 30 miles away.

I lived in the Bay area nearly 30 years before moving up here. Now if you guys want to talk about where can you do so many different things, Anchorage is very tough to beat, I'd say unique in the world.

Where else during a lunctime (on rare occasions my lunch hour goes long <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> 0 can you: Shoot at rifle/handgun range, hike, mountain bike, cross country ski, ice scate, rock climb, fish (king and silver salmon, rainbow trout, dolley varden) and see wildlife (moose, bears, sheep and small game/birds) You get most all the trappings of a big city, classical music/theater, clubs, fine restaraunts, and wildneress is not only less than an hour away, you can see it from downtown. You don't get taxed to death, and housing is affordable. Salaries are generally pretty decent, I'd say generally on par with CA.