Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire 2011 officially doesn't suck

I wish I was as confident in this belief as you are, however I remain skeptical until there is irrefutable evidence. From what I have read and interviewed research authors there is a lot of buts and maybes. The idea of the presence of coyotes providing some protection from other predators like fox and raccoon has come primarily from the waterfowl and songbird literature and is risky business to extrapolate that to wild turkeys.

Not so many buts and maybes that I've seen.

No extrapolation. It was found in the interaction terms of a PhD dissertation on nestling and fledgling turkey survival as well. It seems to work everywhere there are ground nesting birds - which is pretty much everywhere. Be skeptical as you want, but the data are clearly in the positive-effect camp when it comes to 'yotes and ground-nesting birds.

One of the apparent side effects near me has been that, with the rise in coyote populations in this area, foxes are really pulling in tight to human habitation. I have fox burrows within 30 yds of my front door, even though I have 3 60-70 lb dogs that run lose when we are home. We also have foxes working hard here on campus, even where buildings are 40 ft apart and sidewalks and undergrads are everywhere.

I would appreciate the source info on the PhD dissertation as this topic is of interest in the National Wild Turkey Federation chapter I belong to.

Agreed, the relationships about fox avoiding coyotes is well established in the scientific literature - the effects are both indirect (behavioral avoidance of coyote areas by fox) and direct (limited predation by coyotes on fox).

Wayne

Michael Hubbard, PhD, Iowa State University. I forget the exact year. Mid1990s. He is now (and has been for a long time) in Missouri's Dept Conservation or whatever they call their version of Fish and Game.

Probably also published in JWM, but I can't attest to exactly what all made it out of the dissertation and into journals as I was just a committee member, not his advisor (at least not on the PhD) nor co-author.

Coyotes may be good for nesting hens, but I have one of my honey holes that we have found 4 dead and partially eaten toms on in the last 3 years. Last year there were 2 adults laying 3 ft from each other just off a field edge. Never any hens though. I assume they were coyote kills because the place is THICK with them, but I suppose it could be bobcats. Never seen a cat though. I call multiple yotes in every year with the turkey calls. dam things.

Never said they don't eat turkeys when they can. Who doesn't?

But the net balance is on the positive side and that's what people lose sight of. And then you are "assuming" - that's generally a bad bad idea and hard to defend objectively to say the least. Could be dogs or trigger happy [bleep] or a bunch of things.

I've called them in many times with turkey calls too. But the net effect is the only thing that counts.

true. nice bird BTW.

Thanks for the source - will be following up on it.

Wayne

how many can you shoot in IA?

Two in the spring. There is also a fall season (1?) that I never take advantage of.

Brent

2011 doesn't suck...but you do!

Sweeeet hammer gun...gotta love it done "old school"..

Old school doesn't lose anything to "new school". So, why not?

When I go modern, I use my grandpa's 1897 Winchester...

Actually a full choke '97 shoots as tight a pattern as anything Ive ever seen....


Weren't you shooting som squirrels with cool stuff???

Life is very short, so I always do my best to use cool stuff - if you think custom Win 1885 low walls or #3 Ballards originals are cool stuff. I just like'em, and they work as good as anything out there. Don't think I've ever lost an animal that I could have taken with a spankin' new WhizBang SuperXXX.

PS. Those kinda toys do better than even when it comes to holding their value. I sold one last year that will pay for an AK moose hunt if I can just get one of my hunting partners suckered into this.

I have often wondered whether the recent increase of coyotes in our area had been one of the reasons we have had a dramatic increase in the local turkey population. I have seen fewer and fewer coons, 'possums, and foxes but more and more turkeys the last few years. Last year was the first time we have had huntable populations on my farm. This year has been wonderful for turkey hunting. Birds are everywhere.

I had three gobblers talking to me yesterday AM. None came a step closer. I suck at turkey hunting.

I suck too (ingwe said so! ). I finally decided, less is more. I call VERY VERY little. And I work hard to get close before the birds fly down. Then a few yelps before dawn, and one every 4-5 minutes just so they know I'm still there, and NONE after they fly down. But I don't trust them to walk very far to me 30-40 yds tops, so I get as close as I can.

That didn't work for this bird. My favorite roost trees blew down last year, so I had nothing to work with on Sunday morning. Then this guy opened up about a half mile away on the same property. I knew the area super well, and I realized that I could get close - 50 yds - without him seeing me. I didn't make a peep because I didn't want him to move to look my way, and crossed a ravine, scrambled up a log over a stream, and then side hilled until I was 5o yards from him. I got my gun up and THEN I called - two sets of 3 SOFT yelps, no more. And he was on the way. I tracked him to 35 yds and let him have it. He needed both barrels (that's a first).

Anyway, I usually use a box call that I made. It's in that picture. But for this guy, i had to use my mouth call because I had the gun up and cocked. The box call is a lot easier otherwise. I just yelp a few times. But I can gobble with it if I get desperate (when that happens I'm SOL anyway).

The guys that can call birds from half a mile - I can't even shine their boots. I'm a get close first hunter.

Fire ants and ground nesting birds.....bad combination.

Yeah, fire ants suck for sure. I spend 15+ yrs in the South.

Well, in west Texas the areas with sheep and goats (where coyotes are extremely rare to non-existant) typically hold 4 times more quail than the cattle country where coyotes are thriving. It's pretty easy to set snares under sheep fencing on coyote "dig unders". In the barbed wire country coyotes travel unimpeded. After hard hunting by predator callers a rancher can still often get the helicopter to kill a hundred or so coyotes that are needless to say "call shy". That's why i cringe when i see (even on tv) a miss. Strangely, the sheep country still abounds with bobcat and fox yet it still can produce the quail if rains are right. This is just my experience as a dog traning quail hunter since the early sixties and from the brush country of south texas through north and west texas and eastern new m. Now hawks will sit over where a covey lives or waters (and owls) and stay there till they clean them out. I know why the old-timers took time to pass shoot hawks in the spring and fall. dr rc