Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Shiloh Sharps - a few questions...

I was in Big Timber last week and toured the Shiloh factory (actually, I visited their shop twice last week - they are patient people at Shiloh). I have been wanting a 74 Sharps for a while and Shiloh will be the one.

After handling just about every gun in the shop and asking them to weigh 5 or 6 of them, I think I have settled on the #1 Sporter with a heavy /half-round barrel. I am having problems settling on a chambering. I guess 45/70 makes the most sense from a component standpoint, but the .40 calibers really interest me as well. Are the .40's difficult to load for? In particular, how about the 40/90? The gun will primarily be used for target shooting, but I do plan to hunt with it. Most of the hunting it will see will be for deer, but a bison hunt for a freezer bull or cow might be in the mix as well. I know one of the big .45's would be better for bison, but I don't see why a heavy .40 caliber bullet wouldn't work at reasonable ranges. Thoughts?

With respect to Shiloh's prices for engraving, are they fair? Is there anything to be gained by sourcing a different engraver? I would very much like to have some engraving to personalize the rifle, but after reviewing the engraving book I see that it is easy to quickly double the price of the rifle.

I also plan to upgrade the wood to semi or extra fancy, but I'm not too sure about the finish upgrades. The AA and AAA finishes are apparently additional coats of tung oil. I would prefer to use a different finish on the wood, even though this rifle would not likely get used in wet weather. Any experience/comments with respect to the finish upgrades?

I have a feeling this one is going to hurt the wallet before its all over! Any other advice or comments on planning an order are welcome...

Thanks,
AEL

AEL,

I'd love to spend a couple of hours touring Shiloh's factory and it's great if you can before proceeding with your project. Given the size of game you're after, a .45 would be my pick due to heavier bullets and greater frontal area over a .40. If a .50 interests you, so much the better!

I'd be very interested in your dealings with Shiloh. I've been researching Shiloh and C. Sharps and seem to lean towards Shiloh if only that their website is more informative and attractive.

Can't advise you of where to source your engraver from but I doubt that you'll be disappointed with Shiloh's. Also, it might save time and hassle transporting the various components that need to be engraved. These are custom rifles so some extra bucks in the area of your choice will be greatly cherished after you take possession of your rifle. No point in feeling that you compromised too much afterwards. Put it this way, they aren't getting cheaper so get your dream rifle now!

I've got a Big Timber Shilo stripped,and am in the process of rebarreling it,for a local competitor,in a caliber ( BPC) not avail from Shilo. I've fired ,and worked with,a bunch of other Shilos he has,in .40 cals.

TR liked the .40-90...."for very long range work". It really was the .300 Win Mag of its' time.

The .40 Sharps straiaght is the one I'd pick, albeit a bit less spectacular in the horsepower department.

Everything about the .40-90 is a bit strange,very long cases,proportionately expensive, requires a LARGE throat press.It is for all that , an intriguing cartridge,and very powerful.

In terms of everyday practicality,I can't see you going wrong with a .45-90,......It's got everything you want ,for long range target work, and can as well be loaded to a brutally effective heavy game killing spec..........like shooting clean through Cape Buffalo.

If you don't have Duke Venturino's book,on Buffalo rifles and Cartridges,you need one....it's all there,in terms of making the call.

Oh,....that Shilo thats in pieces out on the bench? .....as square,and true an action as one could ask for,very "square",and the ID threading in the reciever ring is of superb quality.

You're going to like your Shilo, and it's sure nice to see guys buy American.

Work Safe, GTC

Thanks to both of you - good advice.

Bighammer, I visited both Shiloh and C. Sharps last week, although C. Sharps was not offering tours of its factory (as you may already know, both companies are on the same street in Big Timber, MT). I am sure C. Sharps makes fine rifles, but the Shilohs that I looked at appeared to be slightly better in fit and finish. Also, Shiloh seems to get the nod in the quality and accuracy department among the magazine and internet pundits (for what that is worth). I will say that I think you will find the Shiloh people great to deal with. My experience with them was refreshing. They answered many questions and when I asked about configurations that were not on their display shelf, they started pulling their personal rifles out to let me handle them. Also, in cruising the internet, I have heard nothing but good things about their customer service. By the way, they tell me that the delivery period is running about 16 months now. A $250 deposit gets your name on the list and starts the clock ticking. Something to think about if you are sitting on the fence (grin).

Crossfireoops, thanks for the critique of the action. I'm curious about what caliber you are chambering the rifle that is not available from Shiloh?

I do not know about the availablity of brass, but if you can find a supply, 44/90 was a buffalo killer that was better than the 50/90. If you want the power and an original cartridge then a 45/110 (2 7/8) is the way to go but it is a bit on the cranky side to develop accuracy with. Once you get one dialed in it'll smoke anything in North America out of it's sneakers at quite long range. It was noted for sending its ball clean through bull bison at well over 600 yds. Shiloh Rifles are as close to flawless as I've ever seen. Crossfire has it right . Warning!!! BIG bore buffalo guns are more addictive than heroin!!

It's a really fine mid - range number, and historically most innapropriate.......but as well,a real "dominator" in local BPCR silhouette competition.
The .38-50 Remington- Hepburn cartridge. As with all BP cartridge designators,it is misleading. The case,(most excellent,as supplied by the wizards at Buffalo Arms),is based on the 30-40 Krag. It packs 16 to 20% more thump than the .38-55. We're having top of the line performance,with the 1 in 15" Badger Barrels.

The C. Sharps Rifles are equippped with Badgers,and are a really fine arm, too.

My "Big" .45 cal. of choice is the .45-2.6",or .45-100 as it otherwise known.My favorite brass for this # is again out of Buffalo Arms, formed from Win.348.This is a nice balance between the 90 and the 110,in .45 cal.It's a roomy case,and can be loaded to energies adequate for anything that walks,crawls,creeps or slithers,on this planet,anyway.

Decisions,decisions,....so many calibers,so little time(and in my case, money)

Once again,thank you for buying American.

Work Safe, GTC

Hey,my appologies....first post in this thread,I dropped the ball. Should have said .40-70 Sharps straight.....It's also based on the 30-40 Krag case.

Come to think of it ,the 30-40 is probably based on these somewhat more elderly cases.

For the died in the wool Sharps purist,there's also the .40 by 2 5/8" Sharps necked........another BP magnum,in terms of case capacity......fairly easy to visualize,pull a .45-100 down to .40, in two steps,with no bottleneck.Lots of powder capacity,in this one.

Work Safe , GTC

AEL,

Thanks for sharing. All of this is definitely steering me towards Shiloh. I've had only positive responses from everybody about them. No doubt about the quality of their product! Keep us posted on the progress of your rifle.

Crossfireoops, thanks to you too. Very valuable to get an appraisal from someone who knows the inside of a rifle. I'll probably stick with the good ol' 45-70 as it has served me very well in the past and that from a lever action. It's also the most convenient and practical cartridge.

Hey Bighammer,....yer right,...the mossy,drab , and very utilitarian .45-70 is hard to beat,and my chamber (rather long throat/leade/freebore....by design).......will easily seat a 550 with 2 grease grooves hangin' out, and back that with a stout 75 gr. of 2 or 3 fg Swiss......that is a very powerful cartridge,and ya' damn sure can't beat the price of brass,can you? With my custom built breech seater ( seats entire fixed round into '74 Sharps,I can seat to the front of the second grease groove....that's only about .170" of bullet base in the case................and back that with a whopping 83, to 85 gr of 2fg Swiss..........................Our Canadian,and Australian brethren developed the "freebored" .45-70 in the face of difficult "exotic" brass aquisition.........damn fine approach, and any in depth look at optimizing cast bullet accuracy will include the benifit of getting as much of the slug out of the case, and into the leade,as is feasible.A set up like that will really deliver the goods.

Are you going to be at World Creedmoor 2006,in Brisbane?

Work Safe , GTC

I really should try to get to this forum more often. I own several Shiloh rifles and I just got a new hunting rifle from them in 40-70ss that was engraved.

1) I have seen Shiloh's engraving and it seems to be pretty good quality. Don't order any engraving from the book, I understand it looks very different when you see it on a rifle. Try to look at their completed engraved rifles for some sense of what it will look like. I had Shiloh send my action to Ken Hurst for engraving. I had worked out a deal with him nearly a year in advance and he was much cheaper than Shiloh, I also got exactly what I wanted.

2) I also supplied the English walnut for my rifle. It came from a blank dealer that I trust and I picked it myself. I had Shiloh do the AA finish and it turned out perfectly. My silhouette rifle has Shiloh's presentation grade walnut with the AAA finish and it is great. I think Shiloh's prices on black walnut presentation wood are very competitive.

3) I am currently shooting the 45-100 in silhouette. I think the concensus here is that the 45-70 doesn't naturally possess the horsepower to shoot well in the wind. There are lots of guys that are shooting and winning with the 45-70 but if you look at their loads the bullets are seated out at least one grease groove and many have two exposed and they are using Swiss powder. Essentially they are making 45-90's out of the 70.

My 45-100 took quite a while to get sorted out, but is shooting well now. In my opinion, the 45-90 is the most versatile of the .45's. Several of the top shooters are going to the 45-90 in our area and if I was going to buy a new .45 now it would be the 90.

3) My favorite caliber is the 40-70ss. I have two that are both hunting rifles and I have probably fired 7,000 rounds out of them. Most of those rounds were fired with a custom hunting bullet that Paul Jones cut for me that has a flat point and runs about 1.25" long. The length of this 400gr. bullet is the secret to its good accuracy. My first 40-70ss has an 18 twist barrel, the new one is a 16 twist. While the 16 will tolerate a longer bullet (not much longer) the 18 twist will not. I intend to build a silhouette rifle in 40-70ss with a 14 twist barrel and see how I like it. I must add that with my recent experience with the horsepower of my 45-100, I am also going to look at the 40-82 Crossno as a possible .40 silhouette caliber.

There is my nickles worth, if I can help with anything let me know.

SS

Crossfireoops,

I've got Venturino's book arriving in a couple of weeks since I read one of your previous posts! If the 45-90 was available in a factory loading, even one, it'd be my pick. I plan mostly to hunt with my Sharps but a little long range target shooting wouldn't go astray either. No plans for World Creedmoor '06 as yet but it sure sounds like the place to be to check out these marvellous rifles. You comin'?

SS,

Interesting your comment on the appearance of engraving. I've only seen these things on their website and they look fantastic. No substitute for the real thing though! Yes, a few guys here too are loading their 45-70s more to 45-90 specs and all for long range target shooting purposes.

I wanna hunt with my Sharps hence my pick of the 45-70.

Is there an appreciable difference between Shiloh's AA and AAA finishes? Also, what about the different grades of wood? My feelings always lean towards getting the best available, given that it is a custom rifle.

Shiloh's are flawless rifles. However my Sharps is an original 45-110 30" bbl. single trigger, plain brown wrapper. It si a frist class ball to shoot and I actually lug that monster (14 lb) around the Adirondacks hunting. Shiloh's are better becuz you aren't restricted to BP and cast bullets if you don't want to be. I can't use anything else.I think the real beauty of a Sharps is in the lines. Nothing on earth has its class as far as I'm concerned. You will have more fun than you could imagine.

Big, for engraving I highly recommend Ken Hurst. He did great work on my rifle and he is reasonably priced. The engraver that Shiloh uses is very good as well.

The AAA finish does look very nice, but the AA is pretty close. Shiloh's price for presentation wood is pretty reasonable. I was in the market for a very specific piece of wood, that's why I sent them a blank that I picked.

If I can figure out how to cut and paste the URL's rather than retyping them to post an image, I'll get you some pictures.

SS

SS,

Would be great to have a look at some pics if possible. I'd probably stick with Shiloh for the engraving.

EvilTwin, I agree 100% about a Sharps' looks. They have a charm and aura all their own somewhat akin to a double rifle but more accurate!! You're keen, lugging 14lbs of rifle around!

BigHammer, fellas like Crossfire and Sharpshooter are giving you the best info you could ask for. As for me lugging that cannon around in the Adirondack Mountains--well, if you haven't noticed, total sanity is conspicuosly absent among the denizens of the Campfire. BUT if you have a Harley Davidson, you ride it. If you have a beautiful woman ya make love to her. If ya have a hunting rifle ya hunt with it! They ain't there to gather dust and be left alone.

Damn straight...on every point!

Bighammer,.....Lord willin', I'll be at the WCA 2006, Hope I don't have to resort to cattle rustling , or train robbing to subsidize the venture,but ya never know.

There are some very fine deals on used BPCR rifles ,of every stripe,coming up every month here Stateside. One option you might think of exploring ......Goodman Guns, Buffalo Arms< Single Shot Exchange Classifieds, Etc. Oft-times rifles with a competition pedigree, log books, Match brass, molds etc..

Good luck on your quest,.......make smoke , often. GTC

Keep us posted closer to the event if you do happen to make it.

Thanks very much for the additional info too.

There is a great forum for Shiloh rifles. www.shilohrifle.com/forums/ Lot's of Q & A and discussion among Shiloh owners and wannabes, and good responses to questions by the Shiloh company folks. I recommend it highly.

Paul