Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Difference between a $3.5K custom rifle and a $9.5 K rifle?

Like I said, both get the job done. Is the more expensive product worth the extra $??? well that is an individual choice. If I was buying tooling for my company, and a $3k tool wood provide me the same profit as a $9k tool, I'd take the $3k one every time, heck I'd buy 3 and triple my profit! But, I can only fire one gun at a time.

Sometimes I spend $5 on a meal, sometimes $50. Both provide calories, both end up in the same place in the end <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

All I'm saying is, in most cases, you aren't getting nothing for the extra $ I don't call the man who can afford a $7k rifle a fool since he could buy one at Walmart for $700. Neither do I think the man who has the less expensive gun has a POS because he didn't buy the most expensive gun money can buy.

First things first ... Big Stick is spot on for the topic at hand. Brooksrange wants to spend money on a "custom" rifle that will consistently out-perform his off the shelf wares (in accuracy and reliability), and be practically unaffected by weather conditions. This rifle can easily be had for a LOT less than $9000.00 ... Let's do the obvious thing and list the componantry and prices (I'll estimate on the high side)...

Remington Stainless Steel m700 action (long or short) = $400.00
Custom Stainless match grade bbl with flutes = $450.00
Aftermarket Timney or Rifle Basix trigger (installed) = $150.00
Gunsmith work for truing said action and installing bbl = $300.00
McMillan (or other top o' the line fiberglass stock) = $400.00
Pillar and glass bedding of barelled action into stock = $200.00
Miscellaneous pieces parts (ie: bottom metal & recoil lug) = $200.00
Coating of all metal parts for weather resistence = $250.00
Scope Bases and Rings = $150.00
High end optics = $800.00

Total rifle cost = $3,300.00 (Rifle w/out optics, rings/bases = $2,350.00

That's all the rifle most anyone could use for hunting under ANY circumstances ... and you could get almost 3 of those in different chamberings for the price of one of those $9,500.00 rigs that doesnt "do" any more than this one... at least in regards to what you've requested of the tool...

When looking at incremental cost to benefit the point of diminishing returns IMO comes very rapidly once the $4k mark is hit on a synthetic stocked rifle. At $4k, with a quality builder, I suspect one is at the 80-90% point of perfection. That last 10-20% is darn expensive....

Stick,

I am in general agreement, and my hunting rifles all reflect that very philosophy you espouse. I have found a couple minor exceptions....

A full custom action, like a Stiller, Borden, Nesika, BAT, Stolle, etc is an improvement over a 700 for an high-accuracy application like BR. The Rem needs a sleeve, an oversize bolt machined to fit, a different firing pin and spring, and a full-up truing job (threads, receiver face, bolt face, bolt nose, lugs lapped) to compete with the customs actions. By the time you buy a donor and do all this to a 700, you could have bought a custom. (The custom actions typically run $900 to $1400).

Now for a highly accurate hunting rifle, it's hard to be a Remmy with a simple truing job, and as I found recently, a home-brewed accuracy job (receiver face, barrel shoulder, and lugs), bedded in the right stock makes a good shooting rifle. However, if and when I have the funding, my rifles for accuracy applications will be built on custom actions.

The highly vaunted CRF requires much more work to make it work right after a rebarreling than does a pushfeed. IE, I have have many 700s (the Small Block Chevy of rifle actions) rebarreled, as you have. There are very few issues with feeding. I started with a 375 H&H, had it rechambered to 375 Ack, then rebarreled to 416 Rem and it fed perfectly with all three chamberings. Another time I started with a 270, rebarreld to 30-06, then changed the bolt and follower and now have a 300 Win that feeds fine.

Enter the CRF. Based on my experience with the 700, I thought rebarreling a CZ 550 Safari from 375 H&H to 416 Rem would be as easy. NOT! The taper of the 416 Rem case is less than the taper of the 375 H&H, and this difference in taper means the feed rails won't relase the 416 Rem case in time for it to come up under the extractor before the bullet nose hits the feed ramp. I fixed this by seating the bullets another .065" deeper, but that gives something like .150" of clearance between the bullet nose and the forward magazine wall, whwich means that even with a heavy crimp, the bullets in the rounds in the magazine are set back .007" each time the rifle is fired.

The solution is to slighlty and carefully open up the feed rails, polish the magazine lips, and polish the feed ramp--at least that is what Lon Paul told me to do.

You reiterate my point,when saying: "By the time you buy a donor and do all this to a 700, you could have bought a custom. (The custom actions typically run $900 to $1400)".

However,my thrust was more towards the 70 CRF and the Hoopla associated with Zombies following an eclectic mantra,regarding magical metal massaging to yield something mythical.

My point is/was,I don't savvy the concept,nor the Hoopla,nor the end result,when a guy could unwrap a purpose built action NIB that'll trump it and for less loot to boot.

It's no feat to realize a .5MOA capable synthetic stocked phenom,that'll balance as desired,point in similar fashion and fit the user like a glove,while weighing what one wishes to tote. That while feeding like it had eyes and extracting in like fashion.

'Course some feed on the Hoopla,but I ain't one.

It is,what it is and the "difficulties" are largely imagined....................

Well, the CRFs are fussier to change up, and it does take a bit more work--though I agree that they don't need an extra $6K of work to make them feed right. In fact, both Lon Paul and Chralie Sisk have told me how to do it myself.........

I know a guy that builds custom hotrods and streetrods for a living, and does some fantastic work.

He's told me several times that people will come to him and say "Freddie, I want you to build me a hodrod from my 32. I've got $150,000 to spend". Now Freddie tells me that when a customer approaches him like that, he's immediately got to start thinking of extras he can do to that car to justify the $150,000 price tag, like custom machined wheels, air cleaners, etc.

Freddie also tells me that he could build me the same car for half that cost, using off the shelf parts, and unless I REALLY knew what I was looking for, I'd never know the difference.

I know the same to be true of fine wines, fine meals, art, homes, high end autos, and countless other goods. Sometimes people just want to pay more to be percieved at having the best. That moniker must carry some justification to command those dollars and separate it from the run of the mill goods.

The same happens with custom rifles, there are some things that are critical, and a lot of stuff that's fluff.

You wrapped things up well and I heartily concur..................

Seems to me there's a lot to be said about the nut behind the wheel. Somebody take a look at one of dem rare paper targets Stick posted from his bone stock TI with some trigger work. It can be had for in the $900.00 range. Stick probably shoots the same groups with a $325 Wally World ADL. Also take a look at the groups CAS shot with a 300WM ADL with nothing but a tweaked trigger thrown together from spare parts. Doubt I'll ever throw consistent groups like those regardless of the cost of the tool. I'm happy with MOA at 200 yds At the same time I don't blame the gun as I know it'll shoot better. A lot of guys are out there spending dem big bucks hoping the tool will make them a better shooter. Sure there's some that need tweakin' but most will outshoot the shooter. True an action, add a barrel and practice. The rest is just looks... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brooks, I would take the $9,500 and build three rifles <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />that shoot as well as the higher priced one. I equate it to fine wine, after a certain dollar level it can only taste so good, after that you are throwing money away.

$9,500.00 - $300 = $9,200!

I'd buy the Wally World special, which I'm sure would shoot
minute of bear. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Then I'd spend the rest to have Phil Shoemaker take me
bear hunting! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Blaine,
You ignorant ....... !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Firewood? May your shorts be infested with the filings of a thousand gunsmiths! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />
art

brooksrange,


I posted this on the other forum but will add it here in case you missed it.

First of all welcome. The Campfire is more fun than a turned over twinkie truck!

As to your question:

Of the things you listed I think you left out two very important elements of a custom rifle. The first is customer service. If you are going to spend that kind of money you should expect and deserve first rate customer service. Call a couple builders on the phone and see how they treat you as a potential customer, see how much effort they are willing to put forth in helping you decide on what type rifle you need and see how they will back their work.

The second thing you should demand is that the rifle fit you. It should balance perfectly and be configured to suit your hunting style and the game you hope to hunt.

Many builders can provide the performance you listed. Not so many can provide those I listed.

Just gotta learn to let it go Art .... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You could also just by an off-the-shelf premium factory rifle, like a Model 70 Custom, list price $2,700, for $1,000 to $1,500 on a closeout or wholesale, if we are talking about nice rifles that really aren't custom to you.

Or buy a rifle that actually was custom built for someone else. I have a bunch like that. My first was an Al Biesen 7x57 on a 1961 Model 70 action.

Art,

I think most folks haven't handled a rifle with a decent piece of wood as a handle. I've also seen with my 350 Rigby that a properly sealed piece of wood will make for a stable stock, hot, cold, clean or dirty, that rifle will put 3 shots into 3/4" at 100 yds, despite having a milsurp mauser action, a cheap barrel (albeit fit by a good plumber), merely 2.5x of glass and the military issue trigger, albeit slicked up a tad. Now if that rattletrap piece can shoot that well, I'd venture to say most rigs can do as well.

The trouble is, a good wood stock costs more than a plastic one, and most folks don't want to pay for that. Wood isn't chosen solely for looks, but most folks don't understand that.

How many here actually own,or owned an Echols or
other top smiths rifle?

I don't own a Rolls-Royce either! I'm perfectly happy with my Mercedes! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree. I would try to get answers from Allen Day or Chuck Nelson and some other great posters before you make a decision.

Second, if you are right-handed, you'd probably be able to get a second-hand rifle at that.

Keep in mind that most people will put their mouth where their money went. I'm not saying those guys don't know what they're talking about, but i can guarantee that if they just dropped 7 or 8 large on a rifle, they are not wanting to second guess that decision.