Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Would Like Info About Double Barrel ML With Boar's Head Stock

I ran across this old double barrel caplock muzzleloader and would like some info about it if anyone can help. The barrels look to be damascus steel and approximately 28" long. There are several marks on the underside of the barrels which I have included in pictures below.

The stock has a boar's head carved in the underside of the buttstock (also pictured below). The wood is in better shape than the metal. It just looks to me like an interesting old gun and I would appreciate any help you could give.

Specifically I would like to know exactly what it is or the maker, age, country of origin, and value. It is in pretty rough shape. Thanks in advance for any assistance.






[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/Msufinprof/Miscellaneous/BelgianDouble007.jpg[/img]

Well I maybe able to help you a little .
The barrels are Belgium and is attested to by the liege stamp ELG with the star under it
The 17.6 is the bore size . which is kinda neet becouse most you run across are eather in the 11,12 or 14 range
The other markings are inspector , definitive proof
also the B scrpt is a later Belgian provisional proof

As to the barrels being Damascus. They may be , but they also could be Laminated . There is a difference. A better photo of the actual pattern would be needed though .
I would say it�s a field grade piece .
Stock appears to be European walnut
The stock carving may or may not have been added at a later date .
Myself I would place it at late 19th century . Probably around 1880 give or take . Possibly a earlier if it has under slung locks with drip rails . Back action locks , maybe even as early as 1870
But the leangth and shape of the tang scream later 1800�s


sorry i forgot a price .
late in the 19th century Belgium was importing a lot of very cheep firearms into the US market . Even today there are a lot of them around .
Giving you an accurate price would be hard without actually seeing the piece and its true condition.
But if the locks are working and the bores are at least some what salvageable, no lose ribs and the barrels at least ring true .Stock clean and not broken . You might be as high as 300 ..
But again that�s a big if . More then likely for the above you would be in the 200-300 range .
If the stock is broke , locks not functioning , the barrels having lots of rust and thus possibly rotten , lose ribs or ribs . Then your down to anywhere from 50-150 depending on what can be salvaged from it

Thank you very much for the helpful information.

ha , no problem , glad to be of help .
I know that�s probably not what you wanted to hear but , things are what they are .

For some reason SXS�s with the exception of say Drillings . Just have never become to collectable.
That however is slowly changing . In fact it reminds me of the evolution original muzzle loading rifles wet through . Back when I was a boy original flintlocks were worth 0.
Even in the 1970 during this countries Bicentennial and the revival of traditional muzzle loading they weren�t worth all that much . A whole lot of folks were flat scared of them .
Believe it or not , you could by a CVA for a lot more then an original long rifle .

My uncle who owned a big greenhouse here in Payette county used to use old original barrels as growing props and diodes for his watering supply .
THANK GOD for people like Shumway , rest his soul .
Without folks like him and others , a very large part of our history would be all but gone .
Flash forward some 50 years and try and buy one of those originals that�s in reasonable condition today . Especially one from a well known maker . . .

I really think SXS are following that same path . Just at a slower pace . They just don�t have the same glamour as the long rifles or later plains rifles . But the reality of it is that they hold an even stronger base in our history . Especially in the 19th century forward .
These were our everyday guns . They protected out homes , standing quietly behind the doors or out in the barns . They protected our transportation systems , jails and banks .
When it comes to hunting Fowl , the SXS played a very large part in the movement from ground shooting to wing shooting .
They also span the enter social spectrum . Did not mater , rich or poor ., chances are you had a SXS.
The SXS also has served us in war right along side those venerable long rifles .
Its well known that Travis carried a SXS at the Alamo . But what�s not well known is that he advocated equipping the Texas Cavalry with only that firearm ..

When it comes to Firearms art , the SXS stands right along side the long rifle as well .
If one looks its not hard to find many an example that even surpasses the grace of the long rifle .
Take note of the one your looking at . Even though it�s of cheaper quality , its slim in the wrist , graceful in form and flowing in her lines .
Compare her to today�s lower end examples and what you will find is that she has a heft and feel equal or better then even some of the best , highest priced pieces on the market .

When it comes to quality of piece like the one your looking at , there are a lot of varying opinions. Its commonly excepted today that these Belgium imports were cheep and unsafe . But the reality of that opinion is derived from a whole lot politics and Myth that through the years has been repeated so often that its become taken as fact .
While it is true the Belgium�s were cheep and many did have issues . We have to realize that Cheep is in the eye of the beholder . When your making pennies a day , is a 12.00-24.00 gun cheep ???
I also believe that people back they were a lot tighter with their funds . They new the value of what they made . Thus while we today may think these guns cheep and worthless . The people back then must surly have not thought so as attested by the shear numbers that still exist in far condition . Obviously they served their purpose.

So while your piece may monetary be worth very little , its worth much more in other ways . Its an evolution in our firearms history as it comes from a time when the common guns were starting to change from muzzleloader to cartridge. From Black powder to early smokeless.
Its an example of how strong our politics can be especially when that politics becomes mixed with manufacturing preservation and the power of our industry .
It can hold a place in our imaginations .
If that piece could talk and tell us of its life , what would it say . How many hunting trips had it been on . Did it spend days in the hands of fathers sons and daughters . Did she teach some young person to shoot . Maybe she stood behind the door protecting a family from the dangers on the other side .
How many fine meals did her barrels place on the table . How many a fox did she remove from the hen house .
All these are things we will never know . But in this day and age , I think they are things worth thinking on , visualizing and in some cases remembering . You just cant put a price on that

PS
If you have not checked this piece for loads , I HIGHLY recommend you do so .
I have found that SXS are far more common to be found loaded then any other muzzle loading firearm .
Remember even 150 year old BP loads can still be viable . All the components are there just waiting for someone to give them what they need to go off .
So be sure and check it