Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa Ammo in luggage at OR Tambo

Just a heads up to anyone passing through OR Tambo with guns/ammo. When we departed RSA on Friday, I was told that due to a change in the airports in house rules, if ammo showed up on xray in an outgoing bag it would be kicked out. Ammo now needs to be in it's own box, not packed in your bag like virtually every airline in the world requires. They did the same thing to my buddy when he checked in for a commuter flight from OR Tambo to Nelspruit. Apparently the in house airport management rules trump the individual airlines rules? It was a fiasco. Barely made it to our gate in time, as I argued with them for a couple of hours. Finally gave up, as it isn't worth getting stuck there. To get my remaining loaded ammo back home, it would have been an excess bag, and I wasn't about to pay $100 to ship home $50 worth of ammo. I finally just asked the officer at the outgoing firearms office if I could just leave it there, which I did. He thought the whole thing was as ridiculous as I.

For a country that receives so much valuable revenue from foreign hunters, the SA gov't seems to do everything they can to make it as difficult as possible for sportsmen. Seriously considering doing our next Africa trip to another country.

We had a great hunt, but OR Tambo truly does suck!

Jeff

Jeff, do you mean that if you have the ammo in a container, inside a locked box, INSIDE the luggege that isn't good enough? The ammo has to be in its own checked luggage box?


maddog

Its not what the guide lines say. I think they just wanted to screw you for $100 as exra luggage.
http://www.flysaa.com/Journeys/cms/ZA/flyingSAA/_categories/baggage/firearms_new.html
Have aread through. It states no loose ammo in a checked bag , but in a locked box within the checked bag which should be locked.
I'm going through there in August on my way to Windy, I think I will have a photo copy of the above.

I've been telling people for a long time now, don't take any ammo home. Leave it. It's not worth the hassle. You only need 40 rounds of ammo for a PG hunt. You will use half, so one box left behind is not a big deal, with common cartridges the PH or outfitter will gladly take it and use it.

I hope you guys are good at reading between the lines here but can I suggest that if you don't want to take ammo home with you, you shoot it off at the range before leaving because technically speaking, it's illegal to actually leave it behind...... and at the risk of sounding undiplomatic, it's not a good idea to suggest an illegal act on a public forum that is almost certainly monitored by a variety of Governmental and non Governmental bodies.

Jeff,

It was great talking to you on the phone and hopefully we'll get to meet up next time.

It's fine to leave the ammo if the cartridge in question is used by the Person you're leaving it with and they have a permit for that cartridge. It's why I suggested that common cartridges are always popular with the outfitters.

Even so, it would be cheaper to chuck in the bin then the worry or hassle of bringing it home!

I can only imagine with the Police telling us they are out of a fuel allotment so they cannot come collect the poachers we catch, and that even if they come fetch them they cannot hold them because they have no food for them in jail! They probably don't have a staff of surplus employees searching the web hunting forums for insignificant details about how ammo is handled!

Just my opinion, of course. But having seen how the operation of Law enforcement works there and how the financing is done. It seems unlikely they have any type of office space in Pretoria dedicated to scanning hunting web site operations searching for some hypothetical or random chit chat between anonymous folks on the internet all trying to "one up" each other!

Lets see what hoops they want me to jump through next month. I'll be flying from J'burg to Port Elizabeth. After completing my RSA Safari, we'll be flying out of Durban and headed to Bulawayo.

I've heard the airport is a mess in Durban.... especially regarding ammunition.

Now I know why we chose an outfitter that furnishs guns & ammo in the hunt package with several calibers to pick from.

JJ, I understand what you are saying about coming home. However, my son and I will be connecting to ZIM., with an overnite in JHB at Afton. Are we going to get in a hassle flying out the next day on SAA by having ammo, in a locked case, in our luggage to Bulawayo?


maddog

FOsteology,

In March flying from Jo-burg to Port Elizabeth the ammo had to be in its own seperate locked case as a seperate peice of checked baggage for the round trip. I had read of that "requirement" so I had a bright orange, lockable, lightweight, plastic case with me just in case. Once back in Jo-burg, the ammo was fine to put into my suitcase (still in my plastic, lockable ammo box)on the Delta flight home. The medical kit I had in my rifle case, however, seen when the gun was checked in and with the prior flights, caused us to be pulled out of line boarding the Delta flight home as an SAPS said only "guns in a gun case" and would not allow the gun case to be put on the plane. We spent an extra day there and I put the medical kit into another bag then flew out the next day. Delta personel, The SAPS officer who inspected the gun/gun permit, and airport security were very apologetic and tried to get the medical kit put into another bag so we could catch the scheduled flight but this was not allowed to happen by the SAPS officer who x-rays baggage prior to it going on the plane. The others said he did this sort of thing all the time... No hassles the next day, with the same kit in another bag. First hassle I've had there, but doubtfully the last!

Best,

jpj3

That's exactly what I'm saying, and what they required at the time of my travel. You just never know, and it may very well change again. Being flexible is a must, in dealing with such things. Hope your travel is hassle free!

Jeff

Re-read my post. The requirement has nothing to do with SAA, Air France, or any other airline. The rule change was brought on by the folks at the OR Tambo airport. You can photo copy all you want, and it will do you no good. I had all that with me, and they could have cared less. You basically have to roll with the punches in such situations, or run the risk/expense of a missed flight, and who knows what else.

Jeff

Great talking to you as well, Steve! Had a great tour of the Lifeform Taxidermy facility, on the way to the airport. Nice people, and quite the operation.

Jeff

Jeff,

If I'd known you were there, I'd have popped over to say hi.... the studio/workshop is only about a 7 minute drive from my house...... never mind though. Better luck next time huh!

JJ,

According to the law, the ammo that comes in on temporary import either has to be used during the hunting period or needs to be taken home. If a SA citizen accepts it, then it's not logged into any dealers register and is therefore illegal and if the ammo is homeloaded, thet's further offences because it's illegal to give, sell or accept homeloads....... You might like to read between the lines of my previous post. I'm not having a dig at you, rather pointing out that posts on a public forum that is bound to be monitored by various agencies, saying an illegal act is the thing to do just might make it more difficult for us all in the future. As I said, reading between the lines is sometimes a very good idea.

More generally, I've posted the details of transporting ammo before so won't do it all again but the easy answer is to put your ammo into smallish MTM boxes that will, if necessary fit into your rifle case etc but pack them into a separate lockable box and also ensure there's room in your ordinary bag to accommodate that lockable case.

Then when you get to the airport, just ask where they want you to put the ammo.

If in the riflecase, put the MTM boxes in that and the empty lockable box in your ordinary bag.

If in a separate lockable box, just check that in with the ammo in it.

If in your ordinary bag, put the lockable box with the ammo in it, into your ordinary bag.

It'll save an awful lot of arguing.

Bloody airlines and Governments are getting more and more ridiculous on their approach to these issues and I can see a time coming when transport of all firearms and ammo will be banned.

Ive had a look at O.R.Tambo website and there is no info regarding the change in the transportation of arms and ammo. Only new regs on liquids and duty free.
I emailed them and asked if any changes had been made that differ from conditions stated on airline websites.
If they get back to me then I will post what they say. I aslo asked if they have changed anything , then this needs putting on the site.
http://www.airports.co.za/home.asp?pid=3634
It may be worth while if enough people contact them about this they may make these new regulations clear.

If any one is thinking of not coming back with ammo, either shoot it off or take a bullet puller and bring back your empty cases and heads. Don't bin live ammo!

Shakari

As much as I wish you were wrong about airlines eventually refusing to transport rifles and ammo, I think it lies in our future. We as hunters constitute a small minority of total users so there is no need to cater to us.

There is no danger in them handling firearms or ammunition, but when has reality ever governed decision making when it comes to airline security. Imagined threats have caused massive intrusions into the respectful treatment of customers, yet people continue to go like sheep through securitty checks.

JJ
Your suggestion regarding preparation for all eventualities with ammo transportation is sound. We need to jump their hoops to get where we need to go.

I paid 50 Euros each for each firearm in a single rifle case for a handling fee with Lufthansa in Tambo for their people to take the rifles from the counter to the SAP counter which was less than 50 meters. I tried to reason that it was only one piece of baggage so the per firearm cost was unreasonable, but we all know how far I got with that. It was my only piece of luggage as my wife and I packed one bag with cloths etc.

I had to pay the fee to get my rifles shipped. If they do not outright ban transport, they will cost out the price of doing so.

Randy

I think we're already seeing the first steps being taken with regard to bans on transporting firearms and ammo.

Last year, the EUSSR introduced legislation that banned the transport of ALL ammo on ALL flights into and out of the EUSSR. Within a few weeks, they'd issued a waiver for sporting ammo but I note that the original legislation has not been rescinded and also that the only ammo they're allowed to carry according to the Air Navigation Order (Carriage of Dangerous Goods) Act is sporting ammo.

Everything else is forbidden anyway.

Going back to leaving ammo behind for a moment.... I should in fairness also point out that in some other African countries, leaving ammo behind is actually a jailable offence because the game depts and Govts assume it may fall into the hands of poachers.

I cannot even express the relief I feel when the hunters I am working with say the words:

We are bow hunters!

It's a part of the effort that has become a stress for everyone now. When I first started this I could bring handguns, rifles, shotguns, and even a semi auto shotgun and nobody said a bloody thing to me. They just asked me to fill out the paperwork and hand it to them, they put it in a 3 ring binder and said have a good day.

Back then I would walk into the back (exit doors) of the customs area and go find my clients inside the luggage area. Then I would walk them thru the process in person. Wow have things change in this time!

I have flown all over the world with rifles, shotguns and ammo. South Africa used to be easy, 20 years ago, but in the past decade has been by far the most hassle to deal with, out of anywhere I've traveled.

This is partly because of the ever-fluctuating situation at the SAPS office in Joberg, and partly because arbitary BS at various smaller airports.

In 2008 a good friend was planning to hunt with two different safari operations, one out of Kimberley and one out of Port Elizabeth. He flew into Kimberley and hunted for a week, then went to the airport to fly to Port Elizabth. He was told that, during his 10-day hunt, the airline had decided that it would no longer allow firearms. He had to charter a private flight (for $1000 US) and fly into Port Alfred, where the PH and I met him in PA.

On the same hunt my wife was with me for the first week, then flew home with some of our friends while I stayed another 10 days with other friends. She flew from Port Elizabeth to Joberg, and in PE she (and everybody else) was told to put her ammo in her gun case. She was pretty sure she'd have to switch it to her luggage in Joberg, so planned on doing it there.

But only the gun cases showed up at the luggage carousel in Joberg, because the other luggage got checked right through to the U.S. slight. They told her that she'd have to buy another piece of luggage to put her ammo in, and also pay another fee for the "extra" luggage. So she said, "Take my ammo and keep it," or words to that effect.

That turned into another hassle, but eventually they took it--what was left of a 50-round box of .308's. She e-mailed the lodge to warn everybody else. We all simply put our ammo in our luggage, and nobody in PE ever checked to see where it was. Everything went as smoothly as it ever does in Joberg, which isn't saying much. I had around $200 worth of .416 Rigby ammo that I didn't particularly want to give up.

So yeah, it is probably easiest to leave the ammo there. But it's even easier to hunt elsewhere in Africa. If you just want to hunt plains game, Namibia is still incredibly easy to get into and our of compared to the ongoing flustercluck in RSA. And Botswana was just as easy as Namibia when I hunted buffalo there, maybe even easier.

John,

It's really all about doing the research properly first.

For example, the case you mentioned about the internal flight..... what that's about is that it's international law that an aircraft type that allows access between the cabin and baggage hold whilst the sircraft is in flight isn't allowed to carry firearms/ammo..... and you can bet your life, the aircraft concerned was one of those..... very possibly a dash 7 or 8 etc. There are other regulations and other potential problems but that's the most likely.

The next most likely option is that the airport of departure or arrival might not have had a member of staff on duty who was licenced to take posession of the firearm between the passenger/aircraft etc.

When RSA first introduced the new firearms requirements they were a stuff up but that was close to a decade ago now and the problems really are ironed out but as with all countries all over the world, they have rules and it's a simple case of knowing them and/or using an outfitter that knows them.