Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Who here really thinks domestic drilling lowers the price of oil/gas?

As well as increase revenues to the fed and states through royalties and taxes.

I didn't mean to come off condescending. You did.

An enormous amount of oil company expenditure is on the unknown, Kevin. I thought that was why oil companies explore- You think they drill every well knowing there is oil there? They're in the business banking on the unknown.

"Peak Oil" has nothing to do with US production. "Peak Oil" is about world production, and it has nothing to do wtih running out of oil, never has. We won't "run out" of oil for a few centuries as best I can tell. Peak Oil is when oil production and demand hit their peak. The point where demand is now greater than our ability to get it out of the ground. This world will hit Peak Oil while there is tons of oil. The biggest factor in Peak Oil is the emerging middle class in developing nations. As they hit middle class, they want the same things that you and I have. And that is all driven by oil. Everyone agrees, there's not enough oil to go around.

THIS is why we should NOT be drilling ALL of our reserves. We should be drilling just enough, and use everyone elses oil first, saving ours for last. Meanwhile, we should be reducing our demand to ensure we have enough for the US, so our children have a future.

The only reason that new refineries are not built is because the government will not allow it.

I didn't read every single post so I'm sure we got to here in a logical fashion but THAT (meritous) point is completely different than 'Who here really thinks domestic drilling lowers the price of oil." A true free market oil exploration industry in the United States would dramatically affect supply. If you don't believe in the supply/demand pricing, well... it's a short discussion.

Here's a question for those on both sides of this discussion, "Why don't the infamous 'oil companies' charge $10 a gallon for gas? Heck, why don't they charge $100 a gallon?" Anyone? Anyone?
It would also be interesting to know how many people think oil companies set the pump price.

A new oil refinery is "in the works" to get built in SD to process Canadian tar sands.

http://www.businessweek.com/ap/financialnews/D9N6JU881.htm

Peak oil is the theory by M. King Hubbert that oil production will peak at a certain level then decline. He predicted to the year when production in the US peaked, and he has done the same for worldwide production. His theory is that oil demand will exceed production, thus driving the price up and forcing exploration into harder to extract sources of hydrocarbon energy. The difference in the supply curve and the demand curve is the peak.

Check out www.hubbertpeak.com

I did not know this forum had representatives from the Democrat Underground posting.

Yeah, and look what a [bleep]-up situation we are in. Are you one of the brilliant minds who brought us oil at $100 per barrel? Or do you drive a truck?

Maybe you need to go through benzene detox.

Ok,If oil companies only operate at 90% , because they have to do maintence on the other 10% ,isn't that operating at 100% of thier capacity if the 10% is always of off line.Seems like easy math to me.
If they refine a 900 barrels a day and must keep the maintence going,then to refine 1000 barrels a day,they have to have a capacity to refine 1100 barrels a day in rounded off terms.
In a stretch, theoretically,they could never reach the 100% design capacity ,so in reality theyare producing 100% of what they can.

Again, even considering retrofitting and upgrading, they will not build new refineries that would reduce the price of gas. Retrofitting/upgrading does not significantly increase refinery capacity.

In addition,they might not set the price of oil, but they reap the profit of it's increase.

Sorry, you did come off condescending to me, which is why I returned in kind.

Here's the reality of oil exploration. The BIG oil finds are gone. When we here of really big finds, it's all relative. They're talking about big for these days, not big in the grand scheme of oil production. These so called "big" finds are a fraction of what we found in Saudi Arabia or Prudhoe Bay. Also many of the "huge" oil finds you hear about today are not necessarily retrievable.

How much of OUR domestic oil are we exporting?

I suspect quite a bit.

We pump plenty now, stop exporting and start refining more.

Yes, that's the theory, but I don't know anyone who goes by that set definition of peak oil these days. In the days when geologists were telling people we're running out of oil, that was the model. But today we know that we won't "run out of oil" per-se, but our demand for oil will outstrip our ability to get it out of the ground. This will happen LONG before oil production begins declining each year; yet will still have the same effect.

I'm one of the brilliant minds (NOT) who was buying, but the reality is, I didn't have any more choice than anyone else. I work for a company that needs fuel to survive; therefore I buy fuel. Simple as that. I buy in the market, but I'm FAR from being anone who sets any trends.

There is an approximate 200 year supply of oil in shale formations out west and in the Dakotas. There is a 200 year supply of natural gas on tap also. I work in the natural gas industry. We also have an 800 year supply of coal.

We can make 1/3 or our natural gas from cow manure at dairy farms and feed stalls but it costs about twice that of drilling and fraking. Shale oil also costs a little more to extract than conventional sources.

My solutions:
1) Nuclear power plants to replace coal and natural gas power plants.
2) Use compressed natural gas (CNG) in fleet trucks and buses like city buses, garbage trucks, utility trucks, UPS, and postal delivery. This would eliminate 40% of imported oil, provide American jobs here, and could be done within 5 years. I've driven a utility truck over 100 miles at 70 mph on a charge of CNG. Then it only takes about 15 minutes to refill.
3) Use more diesels in cars and light trucks. They get higher gas mileage thus eliminating more imported oil. They are also less expensive to get on the market than hybrids. That can also be done in 5-10 years. Germany did this and 85% of their vehicles use diesel. They cut their imported oil in half.
4) Allow tax credits for algae oil production. Algae produces 10 times or more oil per acre than sugar cane, sugar beats, and/or corn ethynal. Converting the entire country to algae oil would take the equvelant land space of Rhode Island. I think we could manage that. Algae is also carbon neutral.
5) Use coal for synthetic oil and gas production.

Doing these things alone will bring the price of oil down, because OPEC will know we are serious. It takes ethynol out of the equation so food prices should also drop. It keeps coal industry alive for synthetic oil and gas. It keeps all energy production and money in the US, thus providing lots of decent paying jobs. Natural gas fleet conversions and diesel vehicle production can start almost immediately. Drilling starting now would not come on line for 2-5 years. Nuclear power and coal gasification plants would take 5-10 years to come on line at the earliest. Algae production could start now but would take about 5-10 years to get into full production. At some point either algae oil or coal gasification would win out cost wise.

Don't take my word for it any more than I would expect you to take what SteveNO said; look at the ACTUAL DATA and decide for yourself
http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/LeafHandler.ashx?n=PET&s=WPULEUS3&f=W

I will try to simplify this again for those who are not grasping the concept.

More supply => lower prices.

More drilling + more refining => More supply.

Therefore if you want lower prices, pursue both more drilling and more refining.

The primary obstacles to that are Obama and his EPA.

You're about a year behind, Algae isn't working out nearly as well as they thought it would. Doesn't mean it's not a good technology, just means we won't be getting anywhere near the fuel we thought from algae.

From Wikipedia:
Only few studies on the economic viability are publicly available, and must often rely on the little data (often only engineering estimates) available in the public domain. Dmitrov[53] examined the GreenFuels photobioreactor and estimated that algae oil would only be competitive at an oil price of $800 per barrel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algae_fuel#Investment_and_economic_viability

You're not getting it. One ounce among gallons doesn't change the situation.

There isn't enough oil in the US to change the supply/demand dynamics; that's my point.
More drilling does NOT mean more refining; you don't know the first thing about the refining business, don't pretend you do.

None of this adds up to more supply in any way that will ever make a meaningful impact on the market. YOU'RE IN DENIAL

Look, I'm all for drilling, I'm all for more oil...I work in the industry, I WANT MORE OIL for Pete's sake. I want this more than anyone. But you can wish in one hand and chit in the other and unfortunately the only hand that holds anything of substance is the one you chit in.

KevinGibson, what is your solution to the energy problem. Imported oil costs us billions. It is over half the trade deficit. Natural gas and diesel vehicle production are immediate and quick solutions, but not for the long term. Either synthetic fuel from coal or algae are the only viable long term solutions.

Electric vehicle have a recharging time problem and a range problem. Also they cost far more than either diesel or natural gas to produce. Infrastructure is in place for both except natural gas requires compressor stations that cost about $100,000 to install, thus fleet use is the quickest conversion. A home compressor would cost about $5,000 for nightly slow charging, but refilling if traveling is a problem unless service stations install the compressor stations. Working in a natural gas utiliy we are trying to get at least one service station to install a compressor, with us providing the compressor, in each of the towns and cities we service. Most service station operators are reluctant to do so. It is an uphill battle.