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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,634
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,634 |
And this is a news flash?
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Given the preceeding poster, we all should reconsider taking an opposite view...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
I agree. No one can be a conservative and support national government especially federalism. To be a true conservative is to be anti-national government or at least anti-federalism. Even the anti-federalists became nationalists and federalists once the "new" federal constitution became the law of the land. Okay everybody, flame away.  You're speaking nonsense. The root of your problem is your apparent confusion over the meaning of the word federalism. Nope. Other than maybe Barak and Bristoe I'm the only one on the fire that understands federalism. I'm reading a book right now on the ratification debates between the people and the leaders both anti-federalists and federalists. The anti-federalists really thought they could control a strong central government with laws. What the anti-federalists forgot or did not understand was that once force was transferred from the States (confederacy) to the national government (federalism) laws were not going to restrain the strong central government. If one desires a weak, limited national government then one should desire a confederacy with force belonging to the States. Thinking that one can control a strong national government with laws but no force to back the laws up is what's foolish. Some day people will understand that I'm right. I'm not holding my breath.  The word federalism isn't defined by where the "Federalists" and "Anti-Federalists" stood on the adoption of the new constitution. The nationalists took the name for themselves "Federalists" as a public relations maneuver. The true federalists were then forced to call themselves Anti-Federalists, because they opposed the "Federalists" on the adoption of the new constitution. Federalism refers to a shared sovereignty arrangement whereby the states retain their sovereignty with regard to internal matters, while the national government takes sovereignty over all remaining governmental matters, as delegated to it by a constitution. The Founding Fathers who supported a Federal government had every intention of destroying the soverinty of the States. In fact, they even wanted to appoint the State governors but of course that one fell by the way side. People have been sold a bill of goods that the Federalists Founding Fathers wanted a limted federal government. Nothing could be further from the truth. If the Federalist had had their way we would have a monarchy today instead of a supposed constitutional republic. Heck, the federalists even wanted senators appointed for life and have that appointment a hereditary title. Although some today might think that has happened with some senators. Unfortunately, once force is transferred to the national government law has no meaning. He who has the force makes the rules.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,175 Likes: 3
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 59,175 Likes: 3 |
Who in the GOP is a conservative? Ron Paul, for one. Here we go...
Ex- USN (SS) '66-'69
Pro-Constitution.
LET'S GO BRANDON!!!
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,634
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 7,634 |
Thats a great idea! Take an oppositional view rather than do some deep thinking. You neo-cons will have to do better than what you have done so far if you expect any chance in Oct 2012. I really would like to see a electable candidate emerge from the ashes of what you guys are working with but it looks bleak. Most of the names that keep popping up will only pander to the right and pretend to have solid values, hell look at how quick so many on this forum sang the praises of Trump and he offered what in the way of values? Sheeeet. You guys can do better than this bunch for sure!
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,183
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,183 |
Newt is a pompous, bloviating retread.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 889
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 889 |
He's the same pain in the ass he has always been. He always said he was a conservative, whatever that means.
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 18,994 |
I�m from the show me state�show me a better more comprehensive coherent
Conservative plan then American Solutions.
Leo of the Land of Dyr
NRA FOR LIFE
I MISS SARAH
“In Trump We Trust.” Right????
SOMEBODY please tell TRH that Netanyahu NEVER said "Once we squeeze all we can out of the United States, it can dry up and blow away."
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
I heard some great commentary today on the use of the word neo-con; the second you hear someone use it, automatically ignore him and consider him a moron. Good advice...
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,402
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,402 |
He will pull out of the race real soon.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,790 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,790 Likes: 23 |
I heard some great commentary today on the use of the word neo-con; the second you hear someone use it, automatically ignore him and consider him a moron. Good advice... It's way too valuable an identifier to disappear, jorge, as much as you and your ilk would love that.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,790 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,790 Likes: 23 |
He will pull out of the race real soon. 
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
I heard some great commentary today on the use of the word neo-con; the second you hear someone use it, automatically ignore him and consider him a moron. Good advice... It's way too valuable an identifier to disappear, jorge, as much as you and your ilk would love that. It's a totally worthless and useless moniker with no set definition, used by the kook fringe and the left to define those that don't exactly fit into their cookie-cutter view of the world
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,790 Likes: 23
Campfire Sage
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OP
Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,790 Likes: 23 |
It's a totally worthless and useless moniker with no set definition, used by the kook fringe and the left to define those that don't exactly fit into their cookie-cutter view of the world Nice effort, but it's ultimately futile. You guys will never shake it.
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,650 Likes: 5
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 29,650 Likes: 5 |
I heard some great commentary today on the use of the word neo-con; the second you hear someone use it, automatically ignore him and consider him a moron. Good advice... For as much as mainstream party hacks suggest those who love RP are out of touch on how to win, I'm always surprised by this attitude. If you have a case to make for the superiority of your view of things make it confidently and without ad hominem remarks. Calling a person stupid for disagreeing with you casts doubt in the minds of undecided individuals on the strength of your arguments. Of course from what I've seen of your arguments the end is the same, but I digress... Go back and read the fathers of American Conservatism like Richard Weaver in Ideas Have Consequences or Russell Kirk in The Conservative Mind and you'll learn what Conservatism is. More specifically, you'll learn why a new prefix had to be assigned to some who claim to be Conservatives but aren't. Differentiating between paleo-Cons and neo-cons is just intellectually honest. Read up and find out why and heck, maybe you'll even become a Conservative! Ok, read up anyway...
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
Neocons are leftist imperialists who have been convinced that Conservatism is synonymous with warmongering.
The Bush administration pushed the national debt through the roof and fired up the war machine.
Obama got elected,...kept pushing the debt higher and sent 30,000 additional troops to Afghanistan.
Genuine Conservatives in America are considered kooks these days,..by both the Democrats and the GOP.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Oh please spare me the condescending lecture. On more than one ocassion, I've asked all the abusers of that term to define a NEOCON. They even posted some kind of goofy test here. The result? there were about five or six different definitions of same. I've never called anybody who was an RP supporter "stupid" I have called folks out when they use that term on me when on more than one instance, I've demostrated I don't fit the definition of a NEOCON and I've done so more than once, so stupidity has relevance. Maybe you can post your own litmus test for that definition and we'll see how it differs from what others here have posted. Bottom line there is no 100% test for what a true conservative stands for. Edited to add; and the above post proves it beyond reasonable doubt.
Last edited by jorgeI; 05/19/11.
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
Oh please spare me the condescending lecture. On more than one ocassion, I've asked all the abusers of that term to define a NEOCON. . And you've been answered plenty of times. You just don't like the definition because it looks back at you from the mirror.
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,620 Likes: 1 |
Bullshit and your one liner of a definition falls far short of convincing me
A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2
Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 79,321 Likes: 2 |
Bullshit and your one liner of a definition falls far short of convincing me I don't expect to convince anybody who needs more than 8 years of the Bush administration to define Neoconservatism for them. I have a fairly high opinion of myself,..but still, I acknowledge my limitations.
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