Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire SWAT kills Marine in his home

They don't care now. It's what malcontents do.

As an operator you ought to be ashamed to characterize their actions as "helter skelter" without having a clue as to how it happened.

Rules of engagement vary with the war and it should be painfully obvious to someone of your experience that operators don't always act as they want to, but as they're required to. To expect an operator to press on into a house when SOP calls for them to stop, putting their career and family's welfare aside for their own personal machismo, is too much.

Because they didn't act as you would have, when you worked under different places, circumstances and guidelines doesn't make them cowards.

I'd kindly ask you to put aside your personal feelings about LE, the warrant or any of the other circumstances when evaluating their conduct as operators.

Actually , Lt.,we complain because we DO care .Some of us are old enough to remember when LEO's - with the possible exception of the corrupt forces in some big cities - deserved and recieved respect from the public.That was before all the cop shows that glorified the tough-talking , rules ignoring,badass cops.

And it was before police forces adopted paramilitary equipment and tactics.

It was when cops didn't socialize primarily with other cops and didn't think an ordinary citizen should feel intimidated by their presence.

I don't have to be a surgeon to know that it is a major foul-up when a Dr. removes the wrong kidney.

And I don't need any special training or experience to know that this deal is rotten as hell.

Takeaknee seems to have the requisite experience to be a fair judge and his opinion mirrors the majority of the posters on here who only have their common sense to rely on.

It's a shame too. All the energy wasted saying "I'm so angry" could be put to good use if they'd find a good outlet.

A city council meeting would be a good start. Worked for me when I was so angry, lol.

You brothers in blue and your fellow travelers can keep smearing lipstick on this pig , but it IS a pig and no "new facts coming out" can change it.

Let's not let facts get in the way of our preconceived notions.

Read the last paragraph of Take a knee's post and tell me what "new" facts can change that assessment.

CD4570,

Does your local jurisdiction have a SWAT team of some sort? If not, do they have an inter-agency agreement with a nearby department that does have one?

So we're going to ignore the facts about what happened because of their supposed helter-skelterishness? Their supposed helter-skelterishness being a supposition stated as fact to begin with.

This.

Just like the Costco shooting that everyone had thier panties in bunch about. Once the tox report came back and stated that he had more pills on board than Walgreens and witnesses say he pointed a pistol at the officers all of sudden it did not matter anymore. The cops were still wrong because Costco's cameras did not work...

It does provide entertainment though. I have never seen grown people get so pissy about things they don't know about or ever will know the whole truth about..

Dink

Curdog you are thinking of a time when people had respect for one another also and did not act like [bleep] idiots. This is no longer the case.

You are trying to say that people are the same as they were in 1960 so cops should still act like they did in 1960. I hate to tell you but those times are long ago in the past.

Dink

You still ain't gettin' it Blue, once the door is breached, the only SAFE course of action for ALL CONCERNED, is to clear the building and neutralize(with less-than lethal force, if at all possible) all occupants. That's what they make flashbangs and flexcuffs for. You've already placed your team and the building's occupants in danger, you OWE THEM the courtesy to do it right. If you are afraid of getting hurt, go be a DARE instructor, or go to nursing school or join the damn peace corps.

Let me reiterate, the entry Team LDR made the decision that something inside that apartment was worth risking his team members and the buildings occupants lives. THEY made the decision to go in, then they ran their asses back out the door, knowing that they just shot a man down, and didn't go back in for an HOUR! That's BS. Don't hand me any following orders BS, that is a complete absense of humanity on the part of all concerned. That former Marine was treated like an enemy combatant, that ain't exactly servin' and protectin'. If you think it is you are probably as bad as they are.

Well, I don't act like a damned idiot and no cop will treat me thusly, I won't stand for it, and if my door gets kicked in, I'll be shootin', nuff said.

Change "helter-skelter" to "strategic withdrawal" and the deal is still rotten as hell.

They go in the house, shoot the only person they see 60 times,then withdraw without a shot being fired other than their own.They wanted in the house bad enough to break down the door but didn't want to stay in the house and do the search.

Archer County , Tx has no SWAT team .About 12-15 years ago the Sheriff had sex with a female prisoner and she got a million bucks from the County's Ins. Co. so Law enforcement is not a high budget item .

And for THAT we are all grateful.

DINK , I'm the same as I was in 1960 in that I didn't need cops then and I don't need 'em now.I realize that some folks do need cops , but I don't and I won't have 'em around .I keep my business such that THEY have no business on my place.

Nevermind. Things are different outside the military, but go on thinking that the way you used to do it is the only way and everyone else is either too scared or too dumb to be as awesome as you.

Congratulations.

The tactics he explained make a lot more sense than the "tactics" YOU havn't explained.

I reckon you cops are so used to folks going all meek and mild on you in hopes they will get a break on a traffic ticket that when somebody on this forum calls B.S. on you , you revert to the "I'm a cop and you don't know anything about what I do" dance.

Pathetic,really.

Bingo!

What�s pathetic is you, and those like you, that automatically ascribe negative adjectives and adverbs to the actions of any police action that even has a hint of controversy to it because our friends [sic], the mainstream media, report it that way. You don�t know a goddam thing regarding what really happened in that SWAT raid where the former marine was killed. All you have is media reports, some of which bolster your view and distrust of Peace Officers nationwide. The media reports that back up the police you just conveniently ignore. The fact is the media doesn�t know s damn thing either�they never did. The real story will come out, but it sure as schit won�t be on this forum; it will be in a grand jury inquiry, the proceedings of which you won�t know a [bleep] thing about.

I'm on my phone and about to head home so I'm out for now.

FWIW, if y'all knew how few speeding tickets this "tough guy" cop wrote you'd laugh at me.

You're the one who has said that facts won't change how you feel about this, so why would my opinion about the tactics involved? I think the only reason you agree with TAK's assessment is because it's what you want to hear.

If you decide my opinion might change your mind about their cowardness, shoot me a PM and I'll be happy to discuss it with you.