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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
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The leading line is what you found pertinent? Sure. Because it was. But not support for your spin, so omitting it is quite understandable. Here's the next line. "I will not bow to the ABUSE of authority... I know. 'Says the same thing on my computer. The first line, about a dynamic entry to Terry's home, appears to define his perception of abuse of authority. As to my quote/post, I believe I posted his entire post originally. Hate to see you flail around like this. It's really simple. Just admit you were busted in spin and move on. Or not. 
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Ummm...no, you didn't originally post the entire quote and perhaps,just perhaps, you might consider letting Terry opine as to whether or not, on the facts established, this entry was a abuse of police authority. Forgive me if I don't rely on "your spin",it's about all a handful of you have going for you..
The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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It's easy for me to answer such a stupid,uninformed question but how do you answer it, teacher boy?  I'm just a piker compared to the number of posts you put out during what should be your work day. Who's getting the bills for all the time you put in here during the day?
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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[quote=crossfireoops]" How do we know that 71 rounds were fired?"
Would a Pima County Sheriff Department's press release do, dumbchit?
You'll just run that head and mouth at the drop of a [bleep]' hat,......guess you "pro" LEOs develop a sixth sense that dismisses the need for any backround work,....or READING a post before blowing gas.
Patehetic,.....you'll be demanding someone 'Show" you,...next.
That type of info. should of never been released to the public. It wasn't a need to know. The agency brought on some of their own issues with the press release. Your sure got a smart mouth for such a scrawny built person. I know for a fact little fella, you wouldn't say these things in person.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Using SWAT teams for evidentiary searches in a routine criminal investigation means that any one of us is subject to a raid of this sort , and , as I pointed out in an earlier post , knowing I'm innocent of any wrongdoing would lead me to respond exactly as the former Marine did.
Except , after being exposed to the mindset of some of the LEO's on here -not you obviously- the safety on my shotgun would not be engaged. SWAT teams are not used for any searches ( unless a primary investigator happens to be on the team). Investigators do searches, SWAT teams secure the scene. Again, how do you know he is "innocent of any wrongdoing"? Because unless your formative police experience took place in Turkey, or some similar rat hole, you are presumed to understand that all suspects are presumed innocent of any crime in our system. Therefore, if you set a suspect up against overwhelming odds where the normal reaction of an innocent man is to bring weapons to bear, you are essentially guilty of murder if your intention is to shoot all who bring weapons to bear in that context.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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There is ALWAYS a wrongful death lawsuit and you ALWAYS pay. No amount of money can give a man his life back. You guys are true dangers to society with the attitudes your reveal in threads like this.
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Joined: Jul 2004
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
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Ummm...no, you didn't originally post the entire quote and perhaps,just perhaps, you might consider letting Terry opine as to whether or not, on the facts established, this entry was a abuse of police authority. Forgive me if I don't rely on "your spin",it's about all a handful of you have going for you.. Sure I did. Don't try and spin your spin on me spindoctor, esq.  Originally Posted By: T LEE
A dynamic entry to my home may mean my death, but not all the entry team will be going home afterwards, that is my line in the sand. I will not bow to the ABUSE of authority as I did not abuse my authority when I had it.
Are you available for cloning? wink I may be challenged in quoting an older post, but that's my original post on the issue, and I did quote it all.
Last edited by RickyD; 05/25/11. Reason: not sure how to quote an older post
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Maybe so, and it may be because he brought all of this upon himself and his family. But you are duty bound, in your capacity as an officer of the law, to presume the opposite, regardless of your personal opinion to the contrary.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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Hmmmm, four posts in twenty minutes. Looks like somebody got home from school.
I'm better when I move.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
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Hmmmm, four posts in twenty minutes. Looks like somebody got home from school. Yep, and a little grocery shopping.
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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You ought to count the "may" , "if", "maybe", "could" etc. words in your post, DINK.
You are trying to defend an ACTUAL wrong by using hypothetical justifications.
That's a lawyer trick which might impress Bob.
Not me. You have to use "may", "maybe", "could" and "ifs" when no facts are known. There are few facts known so everything else is a wild azz guess. It is not a wild ass guess that cops launched 71 projectiles into a small area containg a woman and child. Nor that they went into the house , shot and killed a man holding a rifle and withdrew without being fired on. Given those facts [unless the cops change the "facts" again] it is up to the cops to prove that all this was justified. They won't and their employer's Ins.Co. [which means that it will ultimatly be Pima Cty. taxpayers] will write a LARGE check. The former Marine will still be dead and his status as dead hero or suspected crook will be determined with no input from him. All the cops went home at the end of their shift so ultimatly it was a successful operation. I gotta stop for awhile , you people are starting to become real. They may not have known the women and kids were there. This guy is supposed to be a drug runner and a person that had done home invasions do you really think he put his family first? There is a very good chance she only comes around for a dope fix or pay day to get what money she can from him and does not stay there everyday/night. They fired 71 rounds from 5 weapons in seven seconds according to the reports. It was also reported that they hit him 60 times. If that is true those guys are some of finest operators around. They kept their cool and fired thier shots and made them count. Its true that there was a women and children inside the residence but it still did not keep him from starting a gunfight inside the house. You want to hold it against the police for this gunfight happening but they did not start it. According to one of the reports they told him to drop it when he raised it toward them. Its very easy to justify why they backed out of the house. Remember they are after several subjects at the same time and there is a good possibility that other armed turds are inside the residence. After the first shots were fired the police still had to think about the neighbors/public. It would have been irresponsible for them to continue in the house knowing that any other turds in there would probaly have fired shots hitting other homes. The insurance company will pay. It will be much easier to throw a few thousand dollars at her so she goes away. Its easy money for her attorney so they will take the first settlement offered. When watching one of the video the wifes attorney stated several times that it was the wifes goal to clear her husbands/marines name. The attorney never stated that it his goal to clear the husbands/marines name. I thought that was odd. Of course the wife is going to say what a great person he was. Everyone is a great person when they killed by the police. Its kinda like the bum that sits on the same street corner everday for years drinking 40's. Let him stumble infront of a car and get hit and all of sudded he was going to get a job the day he was hit by the car. He will have no input to if he was guility or not. He made that choice when he pointed a gun at the police.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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Maybe so, and it may be because he brought all of this upon himself and his family. But you are duty bound, in your capacity as an officer of the law, to presume the opposite, regardless of your personal opinion to the contrary. Bullshite.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,961 Likes: 54 |
Maybe so, and it may be because he brought all of this upon himself and his family. But you are duty bound, in your capacity as an officer of the law, to presume the opposite, regardless of your personal opinion to the contrary. Bullshite. Thanks for making that public. Your honesty, if nothing else about you, is refreshing.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jul 2006
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The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails.
William Arthur Ward
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
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I participate in these threads in order to further my knowledge of human nature. [ Some would argue that Bob - being a lawyer- should be excluded from any study of "human" nature , but he has feelin's too you know , so I invite his participation]Since the subject of my studies has not changed in recoded history , I never expect to learn anything really new.The results usually just re-inforce truths already known.
The fact that there is no resolution to the debate at hand is due to this :
Cops are examples of beauracratic excellence , though they don't see themselves that way.Like all government bureaucrats , ideas of "right" and "wrong" have been supplanted by "policy".
So any action taken,regardless of its' ramifications, is judged to be "approved" or "dis-approved" according to "policy".
It is frustrating to us when we can't convince them that something is just flat out WRONG on its' face.
The one thing that ANY government beauracrat hates above all else is an arrogant citizen.When we say something is flat out wrong even though it may be "policy", we are guilty of that arrogance.
It has never been established that cops are any more intelligent than the general population .[They couldn't be since THAT is where they come from]They also are not any smarter.
So the fact that a handful of them spend this much time defending the actions of individual cops whom they don't even know against an overwhelming number of non-cops who condemn the actions in question is not because of any intellectual divide.It is not because "we know stuff you don't know" which is the reason most often given.
They surrendered their right to judge right from wrong when they became cops. Just exactly like all other bureacrats .
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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I have always found that you should never judge stuff by its' face. Things are not always as they appear on the face.
Dink
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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You ought to count the "may" , "if", "maybe", "could" etc. words in your post, DINK.
You are trying to defend an ACTUAL wrong by using hypothetical justifications.
That's a lawyer trick which might impress Bob.
Not me. You have to use "may", "maybe", "could" and "ifs" when no facts are known. There are few facts known so everything else is a wild azz guess. It is not a wild ass guess that cops launched 71 projectiles into a small area containg a woman and child. Nor that they went into the house , shot and killed a man holding a rifle and withdrew without being fired on. Given those facts [unless the cops change the "facts" again] it is up to the cops to prove that all this was justified. They won't and their employer's Ins.Co. [which means that it will ultimatly be Pima Cty. taxpayers] will write a LARGE check. The former Marine will still be dead and his status as dead hero or suspected crook will be determined with no input from him. All the cops went home at the end of their shift so ultimatly it was a successful operation. I gotta stop for awhile , you people are starting to become real. They may not have known the women and kids were there. This guy is supposed to be a drug runner and a person that had done home invasions do you really think he put his family first? There is a very good chance she only comes around for a dope fix or pay day to get what money she can from him and does not stay there everyday/night. They fired 71 rounds from 5 weapons in seven seconds according to the reports. It was also reported that they hit him 60 times. If that is true those guys are some of finest operators around. They kept their cool and fired thier shots and made them count. Its true that there was a women and children inside the residence but it still did not keep him from starting a gunfight inside the house. You want to hold it against the police for this gunfight happening but they did not start it. According to one of the reports they told him to drop it when he raised it toward them. Its very easy to justify why they backed out of the house. Remember they are after several subjects at the same time and there is a good possibility that other armed turds are inside the residence. After the first shots were fired the police still had to think about the neighbors/public. It would have been irresponsible for them to continue in the house knowing that any other turds in there would probaly have fired shots hitting other homes. The insurance company will pay. It will be much easier to throw a few thousand dollars at her so she goes away. Its easy money for her attorney so they will take the first settlement offered. When watching one of the video the wifes attorney stated several times that it was the wifes goal to clear her husbands/marines name. The attorney never stated that it his goal to clear the husbands/marines name. I thought that was odd. Of course the wife is going to say what a great person he was. Everyone is a great person when they killed by the police. Its kinda like the bum that sits on the same street corner everday for years drinking 40's. Let him stumble infront of a car and get hit and all of sudded he was going to get a job the day he was hit by the car. He will have no input to if he was guility or not. He made that choice when he pointed a gun at the police. All you have done in this post is to smear a man and woman you don't even know .In opposition to all the things you say he MAY be , I remind you of one thing he most definitely WAS and his death does not diminish that . He was a Marine who served two tours in Iraq.The fact that some cops SUSPECTED him of going bad can never take THAT away from his legacy.At least during his time in active service , he was more of a man than you will ever be. You are my second person to ever put on "ignore" .Say hello to TRH when you get there.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 50,170 Likes: 2 |
So the fact that a handful of them spend this much time defending the actions of individual cops whom they don't even know against an overwhelming number of non-cops who condemn the actions in question is not because of any intellectual divide. Why don't you post the quotes of those "defending the actions of individual cops whom they don't even know". Don't confuse correcting ignorant people with defense of individuals, as described by you.
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
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I am still at the point of my initial post and stand by it. I would need to read all the warrant paper work and after action reports before I would even think about making a final decision.. This really don't pass the smell test on what is available. It also seems like the team went out of control, that is a hell of a lot of expended rounds for one man IMHO.
I really would like to know the whole story on this one. Until then I will reserve judgment. But I will state that I think the over militarization of the police in general and the freedom of no knock warrants is wrong. They should be reserved for the most serious of cases and require much verification prior to issue IMHO. This is my PERSONAL philosophy as I know there is no reason to bust my door and I will be thinking worst case scenario and in fear for the life of my wife and myself, I will react as I have trained. A dynamic entry to my home may mean my death, but not all the entry team will be going home afterwards, that is my line in the sand. I will not bow to the ABUSE of authority as I did not abuse my authority when I had it.
George Orwell was a Prophet, not a novelist. Read 1984 and then look around you!
Old cat turd!
"Some men just need killing." ~ Clay Allison.
I am too old to fight but I can still pull a trigger. ~ Me
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
Look at Dink's post which I quoted .It's the first one up from yours. If the shoe fits , wear it.If it don't fit you - in your own mind - I could post quotes 'til midnite and you still wouldn't be convinced . Besides , this don't pay much.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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