Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire SWAT kills Marine in his home

You are applying the facts of a particular case to a partially known factual situation. I prefer not to do that.

Yep. Had they waited a full minute+, this case would be a slam dunk righteous shoot. Still may be, but the quickness to blow the door is what has caused me concern this entire discussion.

You're more than a little weak on your case analysis but I do give you credit for hanging in their to the end instead of running off and hiding from your prior posts.

There are no search problems whatsoever with this search and that's discernible simply from that small portion of a helmet cam. And, the facts are just coming out now and today's news is just the beginning of more factual disclosures that will be highly destructive to the Guerera's attempts to extort any money from Tucson. One of them being,of course, the husband coming from behind a corridor to then raise his rifle and engage SWAT.

What's next FB, you want to argue husband didn't know it was LE less than 15 feet away from him yelling SWAT in English and in Spanish?

Several LEO's in this thread have used Banks to justify the search, I'm only pointing out why Banks may not work here.

Fair is fair.

That statement cannot be made at this time, given U.S. v. Banks.

I realize continuing to argue an untenable position is good practice for an attorney, given there is no downside to losing an internet discussion.

Can't flush weapons and body armor.
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It was also a drug and conspiracy warrant,FB.

given there is no downside to losing an internet discussion.
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If that's true, you should be ecstatic then.

Storie said they found everything they were looking for in the search warrant.

Is he lying yet again?

That statement cannot be made at this time, given U.S. v. Banks.
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I most certainly can given the totality of the circumstances on what little we now know as fact. Maybe you don't understand the significance and evidentiary impact of wife's blatant lying.

If that is your point, I agree. It may not work. I was reading more into your statements.

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Today's news manifests the only fact that we can clearly establish is the wife being a liar. Seems Storie is rather credible to me,given the fact he stated to the press that which we now know to be true and remarkably contrary to wife's repeated lies.

Plus, before you guys move ahead, you might consider not using Banks as your only guage and the basis/support for further assertions just because it MIGHT be the one the guys are addressing in SWAT school and maybe in some not so thoroughly prepared and argued suppression motions,some 8 years later.

It's one case,older law and hardly current law on the topic being addressed here. For a more recent state of the current law and the case most should focus on is Hudson/Michigan.

I should have mentioned this a few pages back but when I saw many relying on Banks as their sole support and basis for their reasoning, I thought bringing your current might help a bit.

Hudson seemed like more of a remedy case to me. Everybody assumed the search was started too early, IIRC. But yes, reliance on one precedent is a bad way to go.

And the remedy seemingly was to enlarge the totality of the circumstances scrutiny in LE/prosecution's favor by the somewhat unusual approach of a "means justifying the ends" factor. By the way, doesn't anyone feel the recent Kentucky case we discussed ad nauseum gives them any further hints as to this topic?

If so, the court was wrong.

For all the idiocy you've posted in this thread, I would have thought for sure you would have ran home to NY and shielded yourself from further embarrassment. It's obvious you enjoy being humiliated.

Enough already. I'm putting this thread on ignore.

but wait FlaRick, something important might be said!!!

How about this,Sam. Docs released and, amongst other things of importance, look at what was seized from the 4 searched homes.
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Complex drug probe triggered SWAT raid
By Fernanda Echavarri Arizona Daily Star Arizona Daily Star | Posted: Friday, May 27, 2011 12:01 am

The man shot and killed by SWAT officers, as well as his brother and another man, were listed as suspects in a complex drug investigation being conducted by the Sheriff's Department, according to documents released Thursday.

That investigation was the reason heavily armed SWAT officers went to Jose Guerena's house to serve a search warrant that ended in his fatal shooting May 5, reports show.

More than 500 pages of officers' statements, evidence lists and witness interviews were released by the Pima County Sheriff's Department. Also released were audiotapes from the shooting scene, radio transmissions and other communications made by law enforcement personnel during the serving of search warrants on four homes on the southwest side.

A short video showing Pima County Regional SWAT team members serving the warrant was also released. The written documents detail what sheriff's personnel did during the incident.

The short video recording shows that deputies approaching Jose Guerena's home turned the sirens on for a few seconds as they approached. It also shows them announcing themselves, then knocking down the front door and firing their guns.

Audiotapes reveal that no SWAT officers entered Guerena's house. Law enforcement officers went into his home only after a robot was sent in and it was determined about an hour after the shooting that Guerena, a former Marine, was dead.

The reports state Jose Guerena; his brother, Alejandro; and Jose Celaya were named as suspects in briefings given to officers before the search warrants were served. Many of the officers' reports refer to the sheriff's long-term drug investigation as the reason for the search warrants.

Reports show about $100,000 in cash, marijuana and firearms were seized that morning from the four homes that were searched.

Items found in Jose Guerena's house included: a Colt .38-caliber handgun, paperwork, tax returns, insurance papers, bank statements and a bank card, reports showed.

Another report said detectives found body armor in a hallway closet and a U.S. Border Patrol hat in the garage.

Some search warrant documents remained sealed and were not released Thursday.

In the video released by the Sheriff's Department, about five SWAT team members are seen jumping out of the vehicle with shields, helmets and bulletproof vests, all marked "POLICE" across the front and back. The sirens stop and the officers begin shouting "Police, search warrant, open the door," alternating with the same command in Spanish three times before they break down the front door of Guerena's house.

A couple of seconds after the door is opened, one officers says, "Hit him," and all the officers begin shooting from the doorway.

One of the officers falls down a couple of seconds after they open fire, and then all SWAT team members back away from the door, the video shows.

The Sheriff's Department said previously that Guerena pointed an AR-15 rifle at officers as they entered the home. It was determined that Guerena did not fire at officers.

At 9:34 a.m., the audiotapes reveal that SWAT officers began what would be about 30 minutes of repeating in English and Spanish: "It's the Pima County Sheriff's Department SWAT team. Anyone inside the house, come out with your hands up, no weapons in your hands."

Michael Storie, an attorney representing the five SWAT officers who shot at Guerena, said last week that all those officers were separated immediately after the shooting so they could be interviewed and provide objective statements of what happened. The audiotapes reveal that after about 45 minutes, all the SWAT officers are together. They can be heard talking about what happened, according to tape recordings made at the scene.

"That was um, like a movie, the way he jumped out," said the SWAT team leader.

"Well, he waited, he waited and once Hector came up ..." said another SWAT member just before being interrupted by the SWAT leader who said, "What did he say?" Hector is the name of one of the SWAT officers.

Two other voices say they "couldn't hear anything" and that they didn't know if Jose Guerena said anything before the shooting began.

"He yelled something, 'I got something for you' or something," the SWAT leader told them, according to the audiotapes.

The Sheriff's Department said previously that Guerena said something as he pointed his gun at officers.

"I just started boom, boom, boom, boom," said another voice on the tape.

"Yeah, we were all out of ammo when we got back," the SWAT leader said.

While this conversation is going on outside, the robot was sent into the house to check on Jose Guerena, who was shot at least 60 times.

A SWAT deputy directed the robot into the home and observed Guerena lying face down in the kitchen area.

The deputy operating the robot used its arm to apply pressure to Guerena to see if he would respond.

He then used the robot to push down on Guerena's lower and middle back several times but received no response.

While outside, a SWAT member asked the team leader if they were going inside the house. The team leader can be heard on the tape saying no, and the team member said, "Why not? ... Might as well finish what I started."

The deputy operating the robot did not see Guerena's chest rising or falling, as if he were breathing, and said he was "Code 900" or dead, about 50 minutes into the audiotape.

One officer wrote in a report that in a briefing before the incident he was told there was an ongoing narcotics investigation and that suspects may be linked to a double homicide.

Other officers were briefed about a double slaying in Tucson in which a man and his wife were killed during a home invasion that was witnessed by the couple's young daughter.

According to a report, a detective interviewing Jose Guerena's younger brother, Jesus Gerardo Guerena, asked him about the slayings of Manuel and Cynthia Orozco. Jesus Guerena said he knew the couple because they were related to his brother Alejandro's wife.

According to Star archives, Manuel and Cynthia Orozco were killed during a home invasion in March 2010.

A second home

A second SWAT team served a search warrant at a nearby house in the 6200 block of Oklahoma Street at the same time as the shooting. Later that morning officers also served a warrant at two other houses all related to the same investigation, the reports show.

Detective John Mawhinney wrote in his report that he conducted a search of the residence in the 6200 block of West Oklahoma Street in connection with this case and found a large shoebox full of cash under a bed.

A later tally showed the box contained nearly $94,000. He also found a bag of marijuana in the stove and ammunition, his report stated.

Inside the home on Oklahoma, a report states, an AK-47 rifle was found. Guns and ballistic vests were found at several of the residences, the reports show.

Seven vehicles were also found at the house on Oklahoma. Several reports indicated drug dogs used in searches at the house alerted officers to the smell of narcotics on most of the vehicles there.

While investigators were searching the Oklahoma residence, a pickup truck pulled up to the house. A report states that Alejandro Guerena was driving the truck. He was detained.

The report states Alejandro Guerena told investigators there was a "pistola" in the truck. Detectives recovered a .45-caliber handgun from the vehicle.

WIFE INTERVIEWED

Also released were statements made after the shooting by Vanessa Guerena, Jose Guerena's wife.

She and the couple's young son were in the home at the time of the shooting.

She described having to talk to her 4-year-old son about his father after he asked what had happened to his dad. She told him he had been shot but would be OK.

"All I want to know, if he's alive," she told a detective.

The detective replied: "I'm sorry, he died."

"No! What were you guys thinking?" she said.

The detective told her the team was serving a search warrant and "never intended on shooting him. That was not the intention."

Vanessa Guerena said her husband was left alone for a long time after the shooting.

She said her son told her, "Mommy, I saw my daddy on the floor, with all this blood. What happened? Is he gonna be OK?' "

The Sheriff's Department would not comment on the reports and tapes.

The Chief Justice of the Kampfire Kourt has spoken!