Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Coincidences of 9/11. Just a start.

It's true. I lived in New York at the time, and it was only several years later that I even heard that a third building came down on 9/11, and I was glued to the news reports for months after that tragic day. I've always thought that was strange. No plane strike on that one, and it came down in its own footprint just like the other two. You'd think that would have been huge news at the time. Modern structures don't ordinarily do that as a result of fires. A fire should have left the steel frame perfectly intact, seems to me, absent something massive causing damage to it. Does anyone know of another instance of a fire bringing down a modern structure like that? Just curious.

I guess you don't take have to take a lot of engineering or architecture classes to be a social studies schoolmarm....but, uh, there was something massive....a man made earthquake when billions of tons of steel and concrete collapsed next door, showering debris from the North Tower on the "magic building" that so obsesses the Prison Planet crowd.

"On September 11, 2001, 7 WTC was damaged by debris when the nearby North Tower of the WTC collapsed. The debris also ignited fires, which continued to burn throughout the afternoon on lower floors of the building. The building's internal fire suppression system lacked water pressure to fight the fires, and the building collapsed completely at 5:21:10 pm[1] The collapse began when a critical column on the 13th floor buckled and triggered structural failure throughout, which was first visible from the exterior with the crumbling of the east mechanical penthouse at 5:20:33 pm"


the insane need to make simple things complex is a touchstone of the paranoid analysis.

Not saying that's not explanatory, but there sure were an amazing number of coincidences in bringing it down, and so perfectly. Certainly reason enough to be suspicious, especially if one starts with a habitual distrust of a lawless state, the latter being a perfectly reasonable stance, the one in fact advocated by the Founders of our nation. But you may well be correct. I'm keeping an open mind.

Space aliens.

Now that is interesting!

You lived in New York during that time and did not hear about it! That is media control of information!

I believed the whole thing myself for many years. Always kind of a nagging question though.

That has got to be a mind fck for you? In your own back yard.

I think one really needs to look at the wide spectrum of things before passing judgment.

The center columns on building seven just collapsed like a pancake? Building 7 was demolished, there is no doubt.

I am not completely sure of the motivation? It was for a reason. I know the reason behind the twin towers.... basically?

What really bothers me is that people don't question it like they should. It is obvious.

People believe what they see and what they are told?

This forum/mob saith "let us crucify large bubba", "Let us get together and stone him!". "let us slay largebubba and do our own liking!" "Crucify Him! Crucify Him! Slay Him! Stone him!" The masses have spoken, but truth perseveres.


At last, I have won! But that is relative. You have recognized my superiority over you. You will learn..... my toothless sheep fcking friends.... You will learn. You may call me "All knowing one"! You may worship me. You have my permission. Keep my name holy. Their shall be nothing said about "bubba damn it", or the sorts. Pray to me often and ask me for guidance. Ask me and I will give you the answer. Make no statues of me lest they be made of gold and other precious things..... and send them to me as a sacrifice. I also accept paypal.

I think I will look into the motives of the demolishing building 7 next.


Rememder that bubba loves you.

[bleep] moron you need a boot in the ass

I wonder what you think you are accomplishing at this site. You obviously aren't trying to make friends or learn something about guns or share your love of hunting, the outdoors and shooting. I can tell you that those of us who read your posts are not impressed by your superior intellect, your extensive knowledge or your insults. So tell me why you bother to come to this site? You are only making enemies and exposing your flaws.

I suggest that you read all your posts and think about the impression you make on those of us who read them. You tell us that you work with your hands and you expect us to believe that some how you know that the planes could not have destroyed those buildings. That makes no sense. You refuse to believe those who refute you arguments with common sense logic and even studies by structural engineers who investigated the buildings collapse. You resort to insane profanity laden insults that you just make up from thin air. Like your claim that Steve_NO is not a lawyer.

Things have reached the point where the majority of active posters here see you an idiot, and you have earned our enmity. You come here claiming to be a manual laborer/carpenter who knows that when a jetliner crashes into a skyscraper it can't cause it to collapse. Furthermore, you have shown complete disrespect towards us and our friends at the site, people that we have know and respected for years. Your are not going to succeed on the path you have chosen.

I suggest that you apologize for your behavior, change your attitude from an ignorant know it all who refuses to listen to the views of others and is insulting and disrespectful. Start by realizing that most of us at this site can teach you a lot because we know a lot more and have a lot more education and experience than you. Listen to what people say with an open mind respectfully and stop pretending that you are the source of all knowledge. You can't force you views on the rest of us. You can't insult us either.The result will be being banned from this site or on ignore from the vast majority of posters.

First, without revealing your superior IQ, what S does it fall in? Revealing such will tell me quite a bit about your score. My score falls in the 3rd S.

After you reveal the S that your IQ score falls in on the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scales, please explain what caused it to drop, when it normally naturally increases with age.

What is the value of one S on the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scales?

Explain what S is, and how it is derived for any set of data points.

We�ll go from there�

I heard that 9-11 didn't even happen. It was all done on a sound stage in Arizona. That's what I heard. I'll see if I can dig up a youtube video to prove it. Hang on.....

OK guys the gig is up. I am a moron idiot. I have been honest with you though. I have not pretended to be something I am not. I am a fool, there is no doubt about it. I am not even a great carpenter! I am pretty average at everything I do, but I know bullchit when I see it and no one will refute it. I am an [bleep] and a troll too! I do well on Iq tests but have failed miserably at any educational pursuits besides self education. My basic education is to ask a bunch of questions. Very simple. If you don't have the answers, then I will leave the subject alone. You claim to have them, but you don't. Bringing light to the fact that I am an "idiot", or a "moron" does not bother me because I know! But if you don't have a logical scientific answer then stfu. Everyone on this site has figured out that I am a moron. It is no Revelation. I know it! This isn't about me! Let us get to the subject at hand though.

The question is simple:

Explain building 7? I am not asking you for the mussel loads on a 30 odd 7, I am asking for an explanation on building 7. I am afraid that calling someone a fool or an idiot is not enough to explain your stance on what you believe.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A&feature=related

Faith is a different matter. I am convinced that most of you just have "faith" that the twin towers collapsed and build seven does not matter based on what you are told by a higher authority. Faith without question turns into dogma. Dogma is a dangerous sort of creature.

And yes it is important. Absolutely important. This whole mess has given rise to wars, killing, loss of freedom, spent money, the world hating us and a whole bunch of issues that threaten the future of this country in every way. It was a big event. If it was bullchit then wouldn't you want to know?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A&feature=related

Explain

The Dangers in Conspiracist Nonsense

� Conspiracism is probably best characterized as a form of mental illness. Some researchers in psychiatry plainly agree. It is the attribution of control of world events to a hidden cabal of omnipotent conspirators. It is the claim that an organized "hidden hand" lies behind world developments. It is probably best treated in clinics with padded walls.

Perhaps the best example of conspiracism in recent years has been the attempt to dismiss the fact that thousands of eyewitnesses saw passenger planes full of civilians crashing into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on 9-11 and that the hijackers were all Arab al-Qaeda operatives. Crank conspiracists insist instead that the CIA, the Mossad, the Council on Foreign Relations (which publishes Foreign Affairs magazine), the Jews, the freemasons, the "Illuminati," the Vatican, or some other nefarious group were really behind the attacks. (In the case of the fabricator of the "theory" of a SHABAK conspiracy behind the Rabin assassination, it seems to be ALL of the above!)

Many of us have a tendency to dismiss people making such conspiracist claims as harmless lunatics and amusing eccentrics. This is all the more true because quite a few conspiracy �theorists� also endorse crackpot claims about UFOs and abductions by space aliens. But conspiracism can be quite dangerous, and conspiracism in Israel has played a particularly harmful role in recent years. Moreover, Israeli conspiracists at times promote the very same �theories� as Holocaust Deniers and anti-Semites, and often on the very same web sites.

In the US conspiracism has emerged with special popularity in relation to the 1963 assassination of President Kennedy. Polls show that large numbers of Americans believe conspiracy "theories" about Kennedy's death. But there was no conspiracy there at all. The very best article debunking JFK conspiracism is still �Yes, Oswald Alone Killed Kennedy,� by Jacob Cohen in Commentary Magazine, June 1992.

Outside Israel, conspiracism is closely linked with anti-Semitism, and many of the "grand cabal" theories of the conspiracists involve supposed plots by Jews (or �Zionists") to "take over" the world, or at least American foreign policy. Conspiracism is common among the Neo-Nazi fringe Right, the far Left, and the "anarchists". There are tens of thousands of internet web sites devoted to their �theories�.

It would be a mistake to dismiss all such people as mere harmless buffoons. In North America a handful of university professors endorse conspiracy �theories� about the collapse of the World Trade Center, including Brigham Young University physics professor Steven E. Jones, and a professor of economics at the University of Ottawa Michel Chossudovsky (who is also a Holocaust Denier). It is all the more alarming to see the spread of conspiracism into Israel.

Conspiracists see �evidence� of an invisible cabal and plotting where none exists. Ralph Waldo Emerson once wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgolin of small minds." Belief in a powerful cabal seems to serve a psychological need for some people. It provides them with an explanation and excuse for their own failures in life. After all, how can one succeed when up against such an ominpotent adversary? It also allows them to pretend to understand a complex world, without the nuisance of having first to study, research, and master analytic tools.

Perhaps the best analysis of the conspiracist mindset is that of Daniel Pipes in his seminal book �Conspiracy: How the Paranoid Style Flourishes and Where it Comes From� (the Free Press, 1997). Pipes defines �conspiracism" as �fear of a nonexistent conspiracy.� Pipes shows that nonsensical theories of a single institution or cabal plotting to take over the world go back at least 250 years. �Conspiracism,� according to Pipes, is a form of paranoid delusion that tends to take over the entire lives and personalities of believers. Embracing conspiracism strongly resembles the totalitarian immersion of cult members into herd thinking.

Conspiracism feeds on misrepresentation of facts, outright lying, and tendentious twisting of unrelated factoids into a grand theory. Conspiracists take the logical fallacy, the non sequitur, to incredible heights. They are notoriously prone to rearrangement of their perception of reality based upon the mere power of suggestion. The internet is full of web sites that claim that watching news tapes of the collapsing towers of the World Trade Center reveals explosions of bombs inside the buildings before the planes struck, thus proving that the buildings were brought down by "controlled explosions� from the inside. Suggesting that Elvis can be seen on the 70th floor in photos of the collapsing WTC would just as thoroughly convince these people that he was really there in his blue suede shoes. Michael Billig wrote, �The conspiracy theorist � is to the professional historian what the treasure-hunter is to the archeologist; only in the case of the conspiracy theorists, there is no means of convincing them that their quick dig among the documents has revealed only false gold.�

I'm guessing it was the crack.

The Dangers in Conspiracist Nonsense

� Conspiracism is probably best characterized as a form of mental illness. Some researchers in psychiatry plainly agree. It is the attribution of control of world events to a hidden cabal of omnipotent conspirators. It is the claim that an organized "hidden hand" lies behind world developments. It is probably best treated in clinics with padded walls."

So, you are saying that people that believe in conspiracies are "crazy"? It is a popular notion. Let us look at the definition of conspiracy.

con�spir�a�cy (kn-sp�r-s)
n. pl. con�spir�a�cies
1. An agreement to perform together an illegal, wrongful, or subversive act.
2. A group of conspirators.
3. Law An agreement between two or more persons to commit a crime or accomplish a legal purpose through illegal action.
4. A joining or acting together, as if by sinister design:

The bible is full of conspiracy. What lead up to Christ's martyrdom is one of them. History is full of conspiracy. Recent history is full of conspiracy. I have been involved in a conspiracy in one form or another. I would venture to say everyone has been involved in a conspiracy to one degree or another. Enron was a conspiracy. Should one be so foolish as to believe that conspiracies don't exist?

The only dangers in conspiracy is getting your ass shot if one gets to close to the truth. I agree that conspiracies are dangerous, but no logical person would say they do not exist.





"Perhaps the best example of conspiracism in recent years has been the attempt to dismiss the fact that thousands of eyewitnesses saw passenger planes full of civilians crashing into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon on 9-11 and that the hijackers were all Arab al-Qaeda operatives. Crank conspiracists insist instead that the CIA, the Mossad, the Council on Foreign Relations (which publishes Foreign Affairs magazine), the Jews, the freemasons, the "Illuminati," the Vatican, or some other nefarious group were really behind the attacks. (In the case of the fabricator of the "theory" of a SHABAK conspiracy behind the Rabin assassination, it seems to be ALL of the above!)"
Do you mean that eye witnesses saw arabs in the air plane through the tiny windows going 100s of mile an hour crashing into the trade center? The pentagon too? No cameras caught any plane type structure at the pentagon. Please explain.

"Many of us have a tendency to dismiss people making such conspiracist claims as harmless lunatics and amusing eccentrics. This is all the more true because quite a few conspiracy �theorists� also endorse crackpot claims about UFOs and abductions by space aliens. But conspiracism can be quite dangerous, and conspiracism in Israel has played a particularly harmful role in recent years. Moreover, Israeli conspiracists at times promote the very same �theories� as Holocaust Deniers and anti-Semites, and often on the very same web sites. "
So the basic attack still remains the same? "Conspirators" are crazy anti-Semites that believe in little grey aliens? It is seriously laughable but their are minor truths to this counter attack. The usual politically correct crap. I love the Nazi spin. You are good. You are wrong, but good.

You seem very well adverse to the knowledge of conspiracy?

"In the US conspiracism has emerged with special popularity in relation to the 1963 assassination of President Kennedy. Polls show that large numbers of Americans believe conspiracy "theories" about Kennedy's death. But there was no conspiracy there at all. The very best article debunking JFK conspiracism is still �Yes, Oswald Alone Killed Kennedy,� by Jacob Cohen in Commentary Magazine, June 1992.
I think you are changing the subject. This is not about JFK. This is about 9/11. Start another thread. Focus.

"Outside Israel, conspiracism is closely linked with anti-Semitism, and many of the "grand cabal" theories of the conspiracists involve supposed plots by Jews (or �Zionists") to "take over" the world, or at least American foreign policy. Conspiracism is common among the Neo-Nazi fringe Right, the far Left, and the "anarchists". There are tens of thousands of internet web sites devoted to their �theories�.
The only thing "Nazi" that is going on is that we are losing our freedoms left and right. Socialism/Nazism is being implemented at every level in our federal government and we are losing national sovereignty on such a level that our constitution is none existent. Or borders are loose. The TSA is patting down 6 year olds! The left and right wing are on the same bird.

"It would be a mistake to dismiss all such people as mere harmless buffoons. In North America a handful of university professors endorse conspiracy �theories� about the collapse of the World Trade Center, including Brigham Young University physics professor Steven E. Jones, and a professor of economics at the University of Ottawa Michel Chossudovsky (who is also a Holocaust Denier). It is all the more alarming to see the spread of conspiracism into Israel.

Conspiracists see �evidence� of an invisible cabal and plotting where none exists. Ralph Waldo Emerson once wrote, "A foolish consistency is the hobgolin of small minds." Belief in a powerful cabal seems to serve a psychological need for some people. It provides them with an explanation and excuse for their own failures in life. After all, how can one succeed when up against such an ominpotent adversary? It also allows them to pretend to understand a complex world, without the nuisance of having first to study, research, and master analytic tools. "
Are you really quoting Waldo? I think you should read what he said after. It contradicts all that you are saying.

Are conspiritists a threat? So, asking questions is a threat? Not believing everything that you are told is wrong? You are not a big fan of the scietific method, are you?

You are saying not to ask any questions. Just to trust? Conspiracy is dangerous? Blind faith? Trust the official reports that our trusting fed has given us, because they have never lied or been involved in any conspiracy?

"Perhaps the best analysis of the conspiracist mindset is that of Daniel Pipes in his seminal book �Conspiracy: How the Paranoid Style Flourishes and Where it Comes From� (the Free Press, 1997). Pipes defines �conspiracism" as �fear of a nonexistent conspiracy.� Pipes shows that nonsensical theories of a single institution or cabal plotting to take over the world go back at least 250 years. �Conspiracism,� according to Pipes, is a form of paranoid delusion that tends to take over the entire lives and personalities of believers. Embracing conspiracism strongly resembles the totalitarian immersion of cult members into herd thinking. "
I am not familiar with pipe, but I would agree based on what you have written. You think that sheep herders have conspired to take down this country and perpetuate unjustified wars of aggression that benefit the few super wealthy on the cost of many? Your immersion in the totalitarian brainwashed mindset does seem like a cult. You are crazy, dude.

Atleast my theory has logical and factual evidence that is not popular, but more free thinking. I shall have to get a book on Pipe. I think I would like him.

"Conspiracism feeds on misrepresentation of facts, outright lying, and tendentious twisting of unrelated factoids into a grand theory. Conspiracists take the logical fallacy, the non sequitur, to incredible heights. They are notoriously prone to rearrangement of their perception of reality based upon the mere power of suggestion. The internet is full of web sites that claim that watching news tapes of the collapsing towers of the World Trade Center reveals explosions of bombs inside the buildings before the planes struck, thus proving that the buildings were brought down by "controlled explosions� from the inside. Suggesting that Elvis can be seen on the 70th floor in photos of the collapsing WTC would just as thoroughly convince these people that he was really there in his blue suede shoes. Michael Billig wrote, �The conspiracy theorist � is to the professional historian what the treasure-hunter is to the archeologist; only in the case of the conspiracy theorists, there is no means of convincing them that their quick dig among the documents has revealed only false gold.�

I Agree! It is all lies! You have done nothing but misrepresent facts. Where are all the weapons of mass destruction that we were convinced existed? What a great conspiracy! Where is the body of Osama? Where is your proof that building seven collapsed because of the planes hitting the twin towers? I like how you are painting a false picture and obscuring facts with a notion of creative deception leading away from the truth. I like how you are directing the argument, but facts win real debates. Not some conjuring bullchit of fantastical association of "elvis being in building 7".

The question is simple. What happened to building 7? I am a simple guy. I make a simple living, but I am a growing norm. Convince me, but don't try to trick me. I am tired of that and all the bullchit. I need real hard facts and stuff that makes actual common sense. I don't care if I am wrong. I just want logical proof that is backed up by real professionals in the field and solid documentation. I have looked up some of the stuff that has been given on this debate (this site), if you can call it that. Nothing, notta. Just hearsay and speculations. Dead ends with no information. No real explanations to anything. NOTHING! Where as the conspiracy side has all the backing with facts stacked on facts. Cross references and real evidence. All I get from the other side is absolute bullchit. I don't want to be labeled a "conspiracy theorist". I know the other labels that come with that. You guys seriously have nothing to offer in any way on this subject. Only parroted responses. The subject is moot. It is default on every level from your corner.

I have found what I asked for. I am not going to say it was expected. What I have found has nothing to do with 9/11.

Have a good life. I mean that.

LargeBubba, signing out.

Good thing the Founders are long dead, otherwise the US Constitution and the Federalist Papers would constitute sufficient evidence to have them committed to psychiatric institutions for being "cospiracists." Forget about the anti-federalists. They'd be committed to the rubber room.

We do have pictures and records of the hijackers boarding those planes. Then we have phone calls from some of the passengers on the planes who described what was happening.

We also have studies by independent investigators who determined that the planes caused the buildings to collapse. We also have common sense. There is plenty of energy to destroy those buildings in the jet airplanes that crashed into the buildings with nearly full tanks of jet fuel.

Furthermore, common sense tells us that the buildings were not designed to withstand the impact of those planes. There was no apparent reason for them to do it as no one would rationally expect that to happen and It would have greatly increased the cost of the buildings. if it was possible at all.

Why do you insist on claiming the buildings were destroyed by a conspiracy? There is no evidence that it was anything other than the planes that we saw flying into them. There is plenty of evidence to support the obvious conclusion that it was the planes that destroyed those buildings.

large B figures that those in Government would actually be smart enough to pull off a conspiracy of this type, me I don't think they are clever enough to do it.