Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire SWAT kills Marine in his home

If the question is "Are the cops lying about Jose pointing his rifle at them?", then the position of the safety is important .Some combat vets and others familiar with the AR have pointed out the " WHY" in several posts.

You do remember , don't you, that the cops first lied about being shot at. So the question of "Would THESE cops lie ?"has already been answered.

I can't remember if in your earlier post you said you had been studying "police" for the last eleven years or was it "policemen" you have been "studying"?

And "rules of evidence" are whatever a particular judge says they are in a particular case.I've been told by lawyers very highly regarded in the area of wrongful death defense that IN THE REAL WORLD the interpretation is much broader.I can see why that would be the case but since I'm not a lawyer I'll just take their word for it.

I doubt Steve No consults with Isaac as his first choice when defending his business clients against wrongful death claims.If Steve corrects me on this , I'll stand corrected .Otherwise , I'm standing by it.[IOW, Isaac's comments won't be considered in this instance]

I understand the "whys" of the choice to use a SWAT team to assist in the serving of the search warrant.Isaac has explained that with the same repitiveness displayed in dodging the harder questions.

What I can't understand is an organization - in this instance the S.O. of Pima County - which ,given the luxery of choosing the time and method of the serving of the warrant,that is structered in such a way that the welfare of a small child is completely left out of consideration.The cops' own statements damn them .

They had Jose picked as the worst of the bunch.They knew he had two small children.

And nobody in the S.O.'s office had the cajones to ask ;"Are you guys out of your mind? Hit his house with a SWAT team ?"

And posts like this one are called "monday morning quarterbacking".

Differences aside ;I feel your pain.

This keeps going around in my mind.

How is one to know the dynamic entry team that has a search warrant is really the "police" and not some home invasion crew dress up like the "police" especially in areas that have a lot of home invasions and the home invaders are some times known to use police uniforms?

Don't confuse advocacy for differences. I've spent 25 years dealing with folks who disagree with my positions,whether they actually do or not. And,on top of it, they are handsomely paid for it. You either learn not to take it personally or you'll end up letting emotions diminish your effectiveness. Our respective opinions here are simply that. What's important is how you let it affect you as I can surely assure you there will be another similar Guerena Swat raid thread coming soon to a 24H forum theatre near you. Next time,though,you can take the cops and I'll try out my skill-set arguing for the bad guys.I might surprise you.

That's not a legitimate question on this thread.You are to refrain from posting on here until Isaac restores your privileges .

Who's Isaac?

Obliged.I MEANT differences of opinions expressed in this thread.

IMHO you just agreed with a "guess" I made earlier but I'm lettin' it lay.

edited to add:Please understand that I am rejecting your offer as far as side-switching in a future thread like this.I got my hands full when you are OUT of your natural element.

I've never seen an home invasion crew drive up in marked police cars with lights and sirens.

When you see approximately 6 SUV vehicles clearly marked police/sheriff,lights flashing,sirens on,several other sheriff's vehicles clearly marked and lights flashing coupled by 6 SWAT guys in full body armor and helmets with Sheriff or police plastered in bold letters on their helmets on down, in about 6 different places,you'd have to really believe you've just been targeted by one very sophisticated and creative home invasion gang rather than the cops. Articles of police clothing and protective armor are relatively inconpicuous and you probably won't draw immediate attention to yourselves,until a search warrant is served,of course. Fully loaded police vehicles are another story and some might even think it could really draw some unwanted attention to your escapade were one to risk it.

Likely neither did this Marine. Otherwise why would he have committed suicide by greeting them at the door with an AR? Any evidence he was suicidal, and/or wanted to endanger his wife and child?

And "rules of evidence" are whatever a particular judge says they are in a particular case.I've been told by lawyers very highly regarded in the area of wrongful death defense that IN THE REAL WORLD the interpretation is much broader.
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Not unless the Judge wishes to be over-turned,he doesn't. The Rules of Evidence have been fairly well established since you were a kid,maybe a older kid. I feel you might be confusing Discovery with the Rules of Evidence.

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Ummmm....maybe life in prison or the death chamber could have had something to do with it. If he was involved in the two killings and he believed the police probably knew it,his action could be considered ordinary.

Where I live I would not notice police lights in the day time as my house is pretty well button up. At night it would be a little different if it was early evening and I was up but late night or early morning when I was asleep I would never see them.

I wouldn't notice sirens where I live because I hear them all the time so I wouldn't pay them much attention.

In a free society, it's up to the police to make every reasonable attempt to identify themselves. Dynamic entry for a search warrant is not a reasonable attempt in my book.

But I support freedom and liberty something way to many Campfire members do not. As long as a authoritarian/totalitarian government enforces law and order and provides security they are more than willing to give up freedom and liberty.

Maybe. Maybe not. Had they served the search warrant when he was outside his house we might have eventually known if you are correct beyond a reasonable doubt.

I must admit, that makes perfect sense, considering all the damning evidence they recovered from his residence that he didn't want them to see......what a dipstick.

You are right about the confusion between the two terms.I stand corrected .But the position of the safety will be relevant.Not as relevant as the denial of medical attention I grant you.

But relevant and gotten into evidence one way or the other.

Damn DD.Get YOURSELF out of it.Get politics and your world view OUT of it.

Talk about Az.

Talk about Sherrif Dupnick.

Talk about Jose Guerno.

Please , please ,shut up about you and Montana.

You might have a point. Montana is a different republic than AZ. I've been to AZ and you could not give me that republic/state.

I don't know when the last dynamic entry was used for a search warrant in my area. Even for drugs most police just walk up to the door and knock and give you the search warrant. At least that's been my observation.

Your right, carry on.

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Let me hit you with a news flash,cur. Murderers,drug cartel drug distributors and home invasion robbers don't get a dime. I'd run from that thought,were I you. I'll give you a free pass if you stop pursuing that most foolish idea.

The so called denial of medical attention is also a defense no-brainer but we'll really never know. I'd be surprised if the family isn't across the Rio Grande by now.