Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game For the A-Bolt Haters

I would agree on the source of the problem, but the other aspect to the large number of reports is the simply fact there are more 700s out there... and by a wide margin.

Absolutely true dat and a dang good point

Dober

By request...

Since others have already judiciously slipped an appropriate number of turds into the Browning A-Bolt punch bowl ... I won�t bother to add my disappointing experience with one partners pizz-poor-chootin Browning stainless rifle (chambered in .338 Win mag).

However ... in the true spirit of the 24hr campfire (ie: never let your 24hr buddies live under false pretenses) ... I have to call BS on your group-measuring techniques.

There is no-way that is a .051� group .... or since its only 3-shots, a Jr. Benchrest �Screamer� group. I have a newly minted, shiny (State of Oregon) quarter, that says the 3-shot group (properly measured) is closer to .200� ... than it is to .050�.
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When a boolit fired from a .280 passes through the target paper, it typically doesn�t punch a neat/clean circular hole that is the full .284� wide. Instead, it tears the target paper and pushes some of the target paper aside (without removing the paper). This usually leaves a significantly darkened outline on the target paper, in the shape of a semi-circle (even when not shooting Moly coated bullets) that corresponds to the outer edges of the bullets actual point of impact.

Reference the annotated target photo (graciously posted) above:
With each red outlined box representing one square inch ... I plugged the target into Powerpoint and added a hash mark on the right edge, to approximate .500� for scale. The single circle below the hash mark, represents the full diameter (.284�) of one boolit.

By placing 3 similar round circles, matching the .284� size of the bullet (one representing each of the 3 shots) and locating them, so they match up with the darkened semicircle marks that the fired bullets left behind when they penetrated the paper, we can more clearly see the true shape (and size) of the group.

The maximum dimension of the group is in the vertical plane ... and measuring the height of the two right-most circles (bullet holes) that are stacked atop each other ... we get an outside measurement of slightly less than .500� ...lets say .490�.

Subtracting one bullet diameter, from this outside spread ... (.490� - .284�) leaves us with .206� ... which is a much better approximation of the true group-size ... than the claimed .051�. Still a good group, but only a sample-of-one ... (even blind pigs .... blah-blah).

By your group-size technique, of only looking at (ie: only measuring) the size of the hole left in the paper, I�ve shot some 3-shot groups with my hunting rifles that would be NEGATIVE in size!
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If you believe you have a non-shower-head A-Bolt capable of 1/4� groups (.250�)... it should be easy to show us one single target (and show all of the target) ... with 4 consecutive 3-shot groups (fired at separate distinct aim-points), where the 4 groups Average 1/4� in size. That would be with no extraneous sighters, no called-flyers ... no taped over boolit holes ...and no torn-off portions-of-a-target ... If you truly have a 1/4� rifle ...that should be real �Easy� to do.

Conversely, mount a single 14�x14� target and pound 10 consecutive shots into it, utilizing the same aim-point and post the resulting 10-shot group. Then we�ll have a truer picture of how that particular A-bolt shoots, versus a cherry-picked (and incorrectly measured) single 3-shot grouping.
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PS. Watch out for those brown (tapered) ice-cubes ... (grin)

... Silver Bullet

Donner ... party of 5 .... Your relatives are waiting ...

Hahaha - Jeebus man! You put way more effort into measuring that group than I did. I measured the widest point and subtracted .284!! I'm totally a junior benchrester - if it's .206", then I'm still happy as he11 with it. It's an accurate rifle, and there are a lot of A-bolt haters out there. The post brought a lot of them out of the woodwork - you'll note that I haven't called anyones rifle of choice a piece of chit because I've seen some of them fail in one way or another. That's the best group I've ever shot with that rifle, damm skippy it's cherry picked. The junior benchrester in me was pleased! Apologies to any that feel that I was misleading - I have to plead ignorance on the group measuring - I did it the way that seemed logical to me. To be honest it's sorta like taping the difference between a 179" and a 181" mulie to me. I really don't give a chit - Plenty good either way!

[bleep]'!

That is some techinal measuring.

Personally Nate, I would have called it a one hole group, getting a hunting rifle down to .001" ....grin

Nice shootin! I had an abolt once and could never get used to the short bolt throw. just didnt feel right to me. Traded it to for a 700 with a good trigger, bolt handle and an extractor that still works to this day...grin To each his own. Good luck on your hunt!

Sam is correct ... it does qualify as a one-hole group ... (all of the bullet holes touching/overlapping).
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However, there was nothing �technical� about the measurement ... that�s just how its done. It was far easier (for me) to mark-up (via a powerpoint overlay), the visual elements, to help explain the process ... than it would have been for me to attempt to simply �wordsmith� the whole enchilada.
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Ranger1: Good Luck on your upcomming Yogi hunt.
�There�s nothing more dangerous, than a man who regularly carries one rifle ...
and knows how to shoot it !
We�ve got you in that class and will await your hunt story ... (and photos).

... Silver Bullet

Time Magazines �Man-of-the-Year� - - > 2006

Well if you like the A-bolt fine, I like the Browning FN High Powers. They are not my cup of tea, on the other hand if I was someplace with out a rifle( a rare thing for me) and some hunting came up and was given one to hunt with, I would just smile, say thank you, check zero and go shoot something.

******Fixed*********

Nice group,even pot metal rifles can shoot accurate,grin

Silver Bullet,
nice writeup, I didnt know how it was officially done. And now that we know the truth, I am just soooo disappointed in Nate's gun and abilities. Impressed one minute and now....this just paints him in new light!

I can tell you this, there are a few bears breathing easier now.

Actually, it would only be the fault of the manufacturer if they bought the rifle new and had not messed with the trigger adjustments or anything else with the rifle. Do you know this to be the case? Any rifle could malfunction if the trigger is adjusted incorrectly.

Most that adjust their own triggers know to do several checks and tests to make sure the rifle doesn't fire unless the trigger is pulled. Those that don't are highly suspect and shouldn't be handling guns.

Another dumb question: So does the new X-bolt trigger, which is similar to the new Winchester trigger address the A-Bolt flaws?

The known issue with the A-bolts is the firing pin spring. It has never been made public although it is in the browning field service manual for the A-Bolts. They recommend to change the firing pin spring to a heavier spring to solve the miss-fire issue the A-bolts had/have. Written in the field service manual directly to correct miss-fires. I personally have had this issue. I changed all my springs to the Blitzschnell Springs and never had another issue. As far a corrosion due to salt water - I don't get near salt water. Can't really say.

Thanks, Ranger I feel so much better now!

FWIW, I shot a Browning A-bolt Stainless Stalker .300 Win Mag from about 1990 until and including some of last year. I shot a brown bear, Dall sheep, 20 something elk, too many deer to count, antelope, and eight African animals last year.

Yep, they're pieces of chit but I sure killed alot of game with my piece of chit and I was happy with it.

I bought a .300 WSM in the Winchester Extreme Weather model and I'm sure some people will think that's a piece of chit too but you can bet I'm going to pound a bunch of animals with that one too!

Nice shooting, Ranger, and good luck bear hunting. My daughter's both shoot .280's, I like that caliber too!

Nice shooting, ranger1, and with the exception of only two posters, this has been a pretty informative and civil thread.

I almost hate to add to this thread but thought a picture in support would be OK.



So I was a month ahead of myself that day. But, it was shot at 100 yards, and it was an a-bolt.


My other a-bolts can shoot this good also when I am having a good day. Never failed me yet.