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I am a little amused at the notion that getting closer was a good option on that shot.  1. We were on a ridge that had no cover to move down to the level of the elk. 2. There were elk within 300yds of us and moving down the hill would have unquestionably spooked the herd. 3. The elk were in head high sage and there was only one elk in a group of 35 that Wayne could shoot. 4. New Mexico shooting hours end at sunset and when Wayne shot there was only about 8 Min of legal hunting time left. 5. The wind was very low and unpredictable and the odds of not getting busted by one of the 35 or so noses in the valley would be a long shot indeed. I really do find it interesting that a few would watch the video and conclude the smart thing would be to try and climb down a bare ridge into head high sage to attempt to sort out one bull in a herd of 35. What kind of shot would there have been at 300yds in that tall sage?? Seems simpler to use the terrain, prone position and lack of wind to your advantage and simply shoot the bull. Now I personally would have shot from there just because I like to do that kind of thing, but I promise you Wayne really would have preferred to get closer if there was any reasonable chance, but those that have much elk hunting experience can see the best option was shoot or pass for the evening and not blow the herd out of the country on a bad stalk where the elk have all the advantages. The closer is always better is a silly argument because it always applies until we actually make contact with the bull with our muzzle. Until that point you could always get closer. Real hunters understand you simply stalk to the best situation and take the shot or pass based on your proven abilities. Some guys have more range than other guys because they work harder and are more dedicated to improving their abilities. Wayne works pretty hard and is not your average Joe hunter and his shooting skill reflects that effort. Thanks for the clarification on the video, this definitely clears it up and shows that he took the proper shot and obviously was well prepared to take the shot(which is the huge key).
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Thanks John I had already figured it was a daylight and terrain problem. I can't imagin that hunters haven't had similar decissions to make weather long or short range and some times last day of the hunt. My son lives in Pine Bluffs WY and is a lineman. We are planning a Oct OTC elk hunt in northern CO. Does Wayne visit 24hr forum?
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I didn't mean to imply that you were off topic Mark, only that I was in addressing you. Sorry for the confusion.
I agree with you, if a person doesn't have experience on the matter, then they really shouldn't comment
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I sure would not attempt that shot with my .338-win mag....not me folks. A properly set up .338 WM is a very good 600-yard rifle, at least in terms of hitting chit. I can only guess about the terminal effects. I guess they'd be sufficient. 
The CENTER will hold.
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FÜCK PUTIN!
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Campfire 'Bwana
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I am a little amused at the notion that getting closer was a good option on that shot. 1. We were on a ridge that had no cover to move down to the level of the elk. 2. There were elk within 300yds of us and moving down the hill would have unquestionably spooked the herd. 3. The elk were in head high sage and there was only one elk in a group of 35 that Wayne could shoot. 4. New Mexico shooting hours end at sunset and when Wayne shot there was only about 8 Min of legal hunting time left. 5. The wind was very low and unpredictable and the odds of not getting busted by one of the 35 or so noses in the valley would be a long shot indeed. I really do find it interesting that a few would watch the video and conclude the smart thing would be to try and climb down a bare ridge into head high sage to attempt to sort out one bull in a herd of 35. What kind of shot would there have been at 300yds in that tall sage?? Seems simpler to use the terrain, prone position and lack of wind to your advantage and simply shoot the bull. Now I personally would have shot from there just because I like to do that kind of thing, but I promise you Wayne really would have preferred to get closer if there was any reasonable chance, but those that have much elk hunting experience can see the best option was shoot or pass for the evening and not blow the herd out of the country on a bad stalk where the elk have all the advantages. The closer is always better is a silly argument because it always applies until we actually make contact with the bull with our muzzle. Until that point you could always get closer. Real hunters understand you simply stalk to the best situation and take the shot or pass based on your proven abilities. Some guys have more range than other guys because they work harder and are more dedicated to improving their abilities. Wayne works pretty hard and is not your average Joe hunter and his shooting skill reflects that effort. A lot of elk hunting can be that way.....just the nature of the animals and the country they inhabit...pals and I can recall some instances where yawning canyons seperated us from a big bull,and crossing to the other side brought us close,but in thick cover (it never looks the same once you get over to the other side),and the more prudent move would have been the long shot at a stationary animal.... Years back I made the decision to cross the canyon on a big Arizona bull and it cost me the only crack I have ever had on a B&C-sized 6x6....closing the gap is not always an option,nor a good idea.
Last edited by BobinNH; 06/10/11.
The 280 Remington is overbore.
The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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J-the point was that there's always people willing to tell people what they should be doing when in fact they don't have experience doing it.
Someone bitching about a 600 yd shot on an elk and such and yet they've never hunted elk at all.
Dober Shooting an elk at 600yds isn't the issue. Shooting any big game animal at those ranges just to sell a rifle/cartridge combo is.
I don't drink or Smoke. I spend my money on gunpowder and gasoline.
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So, in your opinion, at what range does it become acceptable to shoot an animal to promote a rifle/cartridge combo??
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I am a little amused at the notion that getting closer was a good option on that shot. 1. We were on a ridge that had no cover to move down to the level of the elk. 2. There were elk within 300yds of us and moving down the hill would have unquestionably spooked the herd. 3. The elk were in head high sage and there was only one elk in a group of 35 that Wayne could shoot. 4. New Mexico shooting hours end at sunset and when Wayne shot there was only about 8 Min of legal hunting time left. 5. The wind was very low and unpredictable and the odds of not getting busted by one of the 35 or so noses in the valley would be a long shot indeed. I really do find it interesting that a few would watch the video and conclude the smart thing would be to try and climb down a bare ridge into head high sage to attempt to sort out one bull in a herd of 35. What kind of shot would there have been at 300yds in that tall sage?? Seems simpler to use the terrain, prone position and lack of wind to your advantage and simply shoot the bull. Now I personally would have shot from there just because I like to do that kind of thing, but I promise you Wayne really would have preferred to get closer if there was any reasonable chance, but those that have much elk hunting experience can see the best option was shoot or pass for the evening and not blow the herd out of the country on a bad stalk where the elk have all the advantages. The closer is always better is a silly argument because it always applies until we actually make contact with the bull with our muzzle. Until that point you could always get closer. Real hunters understand you simply stalk to the best situation and take the shot or pass based on your proven abilities. Some guys have more range than other guys because they work harder and are more dedicated to improving their abilities. Wayne works pretty hard and is not your average Joe hunter and his shooting skill reflects that effort. John - Thank you. Much of what you say does not show up clearly in the video, if at all. The footage at 2:33 in shows what looks to be more than adequate cover for a closer approach, but the angle could be deceiving. And I�ve no idea where the elk are that wee within 300 yards. The head-high sage would definitely pose a problem as you dropped lower. I took my largest bodied bull, a 6x5, a few minutes before the end of legal shooting hours after having watched the herd for 5-1/2 hours at around 600 yards, unable to get closer because of open terrain. When the elk started moving off their knoll at dusk I was able to close the gap to 350 yards by pushing myself the last 100 yards through snow-covered cactus and sage, head first on my back. At that point I faced an open slope and could go no further. Sitting up for the shot alerted the elk and they started grazing away, giving me a then-or-never opportunity, with only one shootable bull, the 6x5, in range. That is still my longest shot. Last fall my son-in-law took his first elk at 363 yards with a shot directly into the setting sun. I didn�t like it but there was nothing else we could do except pass. The details of Wayne�s opportunity were different but it sounds like there are a lot of similarities. Trading a prone position for what would likely have been a less stable sitting position (at best) in exchange for a few yards wouldn�t have made sense to me either. Wayne says he spent a lot of time with the rifle at 500 and, while that isn�t 600, I�ve had Daughter #3 dancing around clay pigeons at 600 with her first shots at that range. Wayne�s experience and your guidance with the equipment significantly reduced the chances of an undesirable ending, although nothing can eliminate that possibility. Last fall my son-in-law took his first elk at 363 yards with a sitting shot from a slightly forward slope, directly into the setting sun. I didn�t like it but there was nothing else we could do except pass. I think Wayne�s shot at 600 was less of a risk. Thanks again for the explanation.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 06/10/11.
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
No, I'm not a Ruger bigot - just an unabashed fan of their revolvers, M77's and #1's.
A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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J-the point was that there's always people willing to tell people what they should be doing when in fact they don't have experience doing it.
Someone bitching about a 600 yd shot on an elk and such and yet they've never hunted elk at all.
Dober Shooting an elk at 600yds isn't the issue. Shooting any big game animal at those ranges just to sell a rifle/cartridge combo is. I wasn't there John and Wayne were. They had a call to make, take the shot or walk away. I would of done the exact same thing. Thinking when you get some experience with hunting elk in the rocky mtn west then you'll have a better informed position from which to form an opinion. But, dats just the way I see it. Sounds to me like you don't even hunt elk so why chime in on an elk forum with an opinion when you have no expierience with said matters... Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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I sure would not attempt that shot with my .338-win mag....not me folks. A properly set up .338 WM is a very good 600-yard rifle, at least in terms of hitting chit. I can only guess about the terminal effects. I guess they'd be sufficient. If I had a well set up 338 that I was intimate with I'd take that shot in a heart beat. Heckola if I had turrets on my 338/06 I'd take it with that. For the prepared 600 yds on an elk isn't exactly a toughy.. Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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Thinking when you get some experience with hunting elk in the rocky mtn west then you'll have a better informed position from which to form an opinion. But, dats just the way I see it. I have some experience hunting the Rocky Mountains for Elk and I somewhat agree wit  h him..Not wanting to start a brawl but I have seen more than one shot at 600 yards and plus on Elk..Most and I emphasis most,were good shots by Military marksmen that worked with my dad and hunted with us every year,but I have also seen boo boo's just for the simple fact of the unseen winds/the animals moves at ignition or a host of other things that just happen and without notice in our little part of the world shooting across and at angles that far. Ofcourse you don't here about those much for obvious reasons but it happens..I always like the guys or gals that say that could never happen to me...Yeah right... Like everything else,once you think you know it all and are 10 feet tall and bullet proof,here comes John Doe just to prove you wrong... Everyone has an opinion based on experiences and yours nor mine are right all the time based on, guess what..Different experiences!!!! Naw..Can't be can it? Jayco
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Not wrong, just different is what my Dad always said. Just my experience but I feel that elk taken at long range by the practiced will hit the turf far faster than the unpracticed even at distances half as far. I've seen some terrible situations where unpracticed were shooting at long range and I've seen the same where the unpracticed where shooting at close animals (say 300 or less). And often times the elk were on the move. Guess my point in a long about way is I'd bet on the practiced taking elk out at long range easier and with less muss and fuss than joe average elk hunted banging away at animals far closer. Just me and my way but I'd take a well set up long range shot everyday over one that was tons closer where I wasn't well set up and or animals were moving. In the ideal world people would know their ability's and stay within them. Note how I said ideal world..  Just my way Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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And heck we've not had a good E brawl for a time around here anyway...grin
Have a super weekend all! I'm gonna be watching my 11 yr old G-son play in his first All Star tourney for the year so I'm stoked!
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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The only thing more I have to say is busting gongs or paper at the shooting range in controlled circumstances is quite different than busting bubba Elk way out there across a nasty canyon with 45 degree slopes......Quite different especially for a guy from tim buck two hunting Elk out here.
You have fun with that little one...
Jayco
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Will do, he's so stoked, the lil dude even got his number (99) clipped into the side of his hair. That's even ok with this old redneck..grin (could be worse right..?)
And as for practice yepper it is different than real life. But, from my experience to the savvy ones (IE ones that can learn and stay within their ability) it will teach them when to be dropping the hammer and when not to.
On another thread some bubba said that all 300 yd shots are chip shots, I didn't agree with him as it's been my experience not all shots are created equal.
I passed on a nice buck a couple years ago in a blizzard @ 198 yds or so. Couldn't get comfy that I could kill it cleanly so I went without that year. That's better to me than to let the critter suffer just so I could maybe feed an ego that I filled a tag.
Once again, just my way and it don't have to be anyone elses.
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
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I would bet Wayne Van Zoll could shoot a tighter group at 600 yards than the average shooter could at 300 under the same conditions
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The problem is all those John Doe's out there from far away places reading this chit chat and may or may not shoot 600 yards at there bench rested range under the controlled environment and think it is the same as in the field with know sandbags or time enough to put up the sticks or a place too and huff'n and puff'n let alone any adrenaline flowing.
It's like saying I saw Mike Tyson knock out .........so I can too but never been in a fist fight...
I also passed a couple of years ago on a couple bulls on the move across a canyon up hill with wind gust..I went back the next year with a freezer box (marked for a kill zone) and laser finder and saw it was only 400 yards and my .300 Win Mag (without wind) put 'em close enough to have done the job but using a stump as a rest I didn't notice before with them ready to crest the ridge with little time to get 'er done.
Jayco
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�
Just my experience but I feel that elk taken at long range by the practiced will hit the turf far faster than the unpracticed even at distances half as far.
I've seen some terrible situations where unpracticed were shooting at long range and I've seen the same where the unpracticed where shooting at close animals (say 300 or less). And often times the elk were on the move.
Guess my point in a long about way is I'd bet on the practiced taking elk out at long range easier and with less muss and fuss than joe average elk hunted banging away at animals far closer.
Just me and my way but I'd take a well set up long range shot everyday over one that was tons closer where I wasn't well set up and or animals were moving.
�
Dober Agreed. Given adequate familiarity with my equipment and low winds, I�d much rather settle in and take a broadside shot at 600 than a rushed 100 yard shot at a running animal. Been there too many times at 100 and less with coyotes and the results were not always good.
Last edited by Coyote_Hunter; 06/10/11. Reason: spelnig
Coyote Hunter - NRA Patriot Life, NRA Whittington Center Life, GOA, DAD - and I VOTE!
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A good .30-06 is a 99% solution.
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logcutter
true words- There is a lot more that goes into shooting 600 yards in the field than a lot of seem to realize.
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Yeah but CH..That country you hunt is like a golf course compared to the steep crap we hunt around here.. Not the same thing or even close.I might shoot a couple miles where you hunt. Jayco
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