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Like I said you don't understand.With the optic's we use.YOU CAN SEE THE BULLET from the time it leave's the gun until it reaches the intended target.This is a fact...There is no esp.Another thing you fail to understand is.A deer shot at close range in the wood's or heavy cover will be out of sight within a few second's.We can see in most case's hundred's of yard's in either direction.So even if a deer does run 30 or 40 yard's or 200 yard's for that matter after being hit we can still see it.I alway's have at least two people watching the deer at ALL TIME'S.If a second shot is needed.The adjustment's are made and within 30 second's a nother bullet is on the way.At close range you very seldom get that second chance.You I feel are the kind of person who would have to see it first hand to understand how it is done.You are more than welcome to come to Lock Haven.And I will show you how it is done.I think you will feel a little different about it then.Any deer is a target.No matter if it's 50 yard's or 500.The only difference from what I do and what you do.Is I shoot a longer distance.THAT'S IT.
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Glad to have you at the fire,Boyd.I'm old enough to remember that the old timers bragged about a long shot just as much as folks do today.If they'd had the equipment available today,there would have been just as many- probably more - taking 1000 yard shots,so all the talk about how they prided themselves on stalking instead of shooting is probably true of some individuals,but is so much " Boggy Philosophy" about hunters from the past. <br> <br>Boggy hit it on the head about the" I can't, so you shouldn't" syndrome.Just ignore the preachers and share some of your knowledge with us.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Thank's Gene.It is almost impossible to explain long range hunting to someone.I have taken people with me and they get as giddy as a little school girl who has a crush on a high school boy.The first time they watch a bullet arch in and hit something at 700 or 800 yard's they can't believe it.I hope I do have something to offer here.We'll see.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Your reception was MUCH warmer than mine,a couple years ago. Stick it out,it's worth the ride. <br> <br>Some very good folks here,open to different ideas................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Boyd, <br>I've been watching this thread with interest. I have not personally seen game taken at the distances you mention but would be interested to see it. My personal "best", if you want to call it that, is a measured 284 yd 1 shot kill on a whitetail. I have seen other hunters make killing shots at distances up to 450 yds. I do not presume to condemn extreme range shooting, but would like to know the actual hit to miss ratio that the "typical" ![[Linked Image]](/ubbthreads/images/icons/wink.gif) extreme range shooter realises. You may be capable of an 8" or smaller group, but what if, and has it happened to you, the animal moves as you squeeze the shot? Yes, I know many people can't hit the side of a barn at 20 yds & are more likely to wound a deer at that range than the dedicated long range shooter would at 500 yds, so no flames intended here. Just interested. badger.
Last edited by badger; 02/24/02.
To anger a conservative, lie to him. To annoy a liberal, tell him the truth.
Promoted to Turdlike status 03/17/12
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Boyd, -- one question, which shot would have the best chance to succeed, one less than 300 yards or one past 600 yards? You, like others, trying to justify shooting at animals at ridiculous ranges, claim chalengers of not knowing anything about what or how you are doing it. BALONEY. Many of us have been shooting and hunting for more years than you are old. There is no sense in using a living thing as a target for your selfish pleasure when a paper or silhouette target would show the results, good or bad. You or no one else on this planet can tell precisely where a bullet will strike at a thousand yards. Yes you may have knowledge of reloading, and it's requirements for precision shooting and your rifle may be the best in the land, BUT, BUT, THERE ARE THINGS YOU HAVE NO CONTROL OVER. and you know it. At least the guys shooting at responsible ranges are doing their part to try and do the proper thing. A one inch miss of the center of a target at 100 yards is how much of a miss at 1000 yards. One step of an animal at the touch of the trigger is how much of a miss at 1000 yards. We may be dumb but not that dumb to think a chart can control the wind within a 1000 yards. There are just too many variables to justify shooting at game long range. When they develop the Ray Gun perhaps we can hunt that far. <br>I am sure you have knowledge to share around this campfire and I am eagerly waiting to hear about your reloading and rifle experiences. Because some of us don't agree with the long range hunting never think for a moment we don't know anything about it. -- no
A hint to the wise is sufficient! Experience is the best teacher!
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How are you doing Boyd? <br> <br>I joined the thing so I could post here.I think it was need one that said that people loose deer at 100y so how can we see our hits at 1000y.Has anybody that doesnt hunt LR saw another hunter looking through 30 power spotting scopes while hunting at any range?Has anybody ever tried it? <br>As far as the wind goes,we dont take a shot if the wind isnt right.For a trianed person or someone that does it a lot,reading the wind out to 1000y isnt that hard.After that is where it gets fun...
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needone.Have you ever long range hunted?Did'nt think so.How someone can be such an expert with something they have not done is Dutch to me.It take's alittle over 1 second for a bullet to make it to 1000 yard's.As for wind.If the wind is high.(Above 10 mph)we will shoot a spotter round at a stump or log 100 yard or so in front or behind the deer.We make the windage adjustment's needed.And the next shot WILL KILL THE DEER.The only difference between a 300 yard shot and a 600 yard shot is I have to put 57 more click's on my gun.Both will end the same way.Dead deer.....A one inch miss at 100 yard?That's a 10 inch miss at 1000 yard's.All my gun's shoot 5 shot group's in the .3 to .4 inch range.If I missed the bullseye (I USE THUMB TACK'S)by an inch at 100 yard's I would sell that gun.(BIG SMILE)....
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Hi SealSniper.Not doing so well.I'm just trying to make some people understand.Look's like we might have another BILL T.Some people would have to see it done first hand to understand it.The battle rages on!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Thank's for joining.Could end up being another Matchking as a hunting bullet thread.....
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I'm not a long range hunter by your standards but so far I haven't seen anything in any of your posts that is incredible.One thing that hasn't been mentioned but surely everyone who has posted so far must know it: <br> <br>An animal that is relaxed- and he should be at 1000 yards- will succumb much easier than one that is pumped up with adreniline.I'd guess,and it is just a guess,that a target type bullet under those conditions is going to be more effective than a " game" bullet on an animal that is pumped up.I use only game bullets,and I'm particular about them,but at 1000 yards I would use whichever gave me the best accuracy.I've seen excited deer run 200 yards with a solid lung hit,but never much farther than that. <br> <br>It's not my style,but to brand it as un-sporting is not justified.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Boyd, What for cannon are you using on these "targets"? What is the velocity remaining at that range? How can a shot in the guts at that distance be more lethal than one at 100 yards or so? I've seen gutshot deer go a 1/2 a mile before they lay down, and travel several miles when pushed. <br> <br>I can't believe a Matchking is deadlier at 1000 yards than a hunting bullet at 100 yards. A shot in the guts is a long day tracking, regardless of the range or bullet. And the slightest puff of breeze at that distance will put a bullet there instead of the vitals. You're lying to yourself if you believe otherwise. <br> <br>Gene makes some very good points that I hadn't considered. But this is where we disagree. Those are NOT targets, they are God's creatures and as such deserve some respect. And just because it's OK for some clown to cripple and loose them at short range, that in no way justifies taking such chances at longer ranges. I have no doubt that you are a very good shot, but it still isn't hunting by my definitoin. <br>7mm
Last edited by 7mmbuster; 02/24/02.
"Preserving the Constitution, fighting off the nibblers and chippers, even nibblers and chippers with good intentions, was once regarded by conservatives as the first duty of the citizen. It still is." � Wesley Pruden
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To be frank, with my 338-378, or my M1A and FN SPR 308's, I could reliably take deer at 1000 yds. That is if I thought of them as targets. I dont. I approximate that I have an 80% or 90% chance of killing a deer with a single shot at that range, but, as Mr Howell says "Good enough isnt". If I am hunting deer, its for meat. Punching paper is different and I do pleanty of that. There is nothing illegal or inherintly immoral about it, but I think that it might be unwise or irresponsible. Either way, I dont have anything against someone who hunts at that range as long as they can prove their abilities to me, but I would never teach or allow my children to shoot like that.
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Who said it's ok for some clown to screw around and lose them at close range? Of course, most of those clowns won't be reading this either, tis a shame.
We may rise and fall, but in the end, we meet our fate together.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Dead is dead,it makes not one whit to me,as to how. That assuming it is done,with the focus on killing quickly. <br> <br>10yds - 1000yds. One is as easy for some,as the other..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Post deleted by Darryl_Cassel
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Darrel, <br> <br>I have copied your post and put it here so as to keep the thread continuous. <br> <br>Blaine <br>********************************* <br> <br> <br>Hello Boyd and Sealsniper <br> <br>How's things going over here? <br> <br>You seem to have some Non-believers or the usual "unethical" comments being said. <br> <br>Maybe I can shed some light on what I have read from other posters. <br> <br>Being probably the elder person around the fire tonight and on this forum, I can assure you that what Boyd speaks is VERY true and is being done more and more every year. You don't have to agree with it but, it is still a part of the hunting sport and becoming VERY popular. <br> <br>The problem with most old time or short range hunters as we call them, is that, they are set in their ways, and are NOT open minded to change. <br> <br>When I was intruduced to Longrange hunting in Cameron County PA many, many years ago, (Have not missed a buck season in 41 Years now) I was open minded and wanted to learn everything I could from the fellows I knew that had done this for so long. I tagged along and got a real education. <br>Up to that point, I had hunted and killed game all ways and I still do, even bow hunting in my tree stand. <br> <br>After a trip or two with those LR boys I was hooked. Now I prefer longrange hunting to any type I have ever done in the past and have been VERY successful at it over the years. <br> <br>At 62 I can still climb the mountains quite well to retreive my game either in PA, West Virginia or Colorado where we LONGRANGE hunt and have for the last 13 years running, for elk and Mule deer. We kill at extended range on elk also and yes, we use MK bullets because we want the MOST accuracy and high ballsitic coefficient bullets we can get. By the way, they do open on game quite well at longrange. <br> <br>I won't even begin to tell you how far we have killed game because some of you won't even believe Boyds kills and he is relativly new to the sport. I am an old timer at it now and have killed a lot further then Boyd has to date. He will get to the longer yardages but, that takes time. I had the pleasure of meeting Boyd last year at Williamsport. He and Butch Keen came to my place in Driftwood just 2 or 3 weeks ago for a tour of our longrange area and my shooting area where we can stretch the bullet out to 3000 yards from my property. <br> <br>Anyone whot thinks we don't have the equipment to kill at extended range can think again. Our equipment list totals about $10,000.00 to $12,000.00 worth of needed items to make sure we do it right. By the time you invest in a Military laser Rangefinder $3000.00, a rifle that cost from 4 to 6 thousand dollars a good set of bigeyes (normally military ship binoculars) and all the other items needed, your wallet is empty for a while. <br> <br>We are not the 3 day a year hunter that grabs his rifle from the closet and goes hunting for 2 or 3 days and calls this hunting. We shoot all spring, and summer in 1000 yard matches at Williamsport ( My wife and I have missed only two matches in 14 years) and we also shoot woodchucks longrange all summer getting ready for big game. The animals are not targets to us, they are the same thing as they are to the short range shooter. A GAME ANIMAL. Our goal is to kill as quickly as possible as we all should strive for. <br> <br>A question was asked about energy at 1000 yards, lets go to 2000 yards to answer that. <br>With my 338/416 Rigby IMP and a 300 gr SIERRA MK bullet coming out of my 37" barrel at 3310 FPS, I still have at 1000 yards --2101 FPS velocity and 2942 FPS of energy left. That's more energy by far then the 30/06 has with a 180 gr bullet at the end of the muzzle. <br>At 2000 yards I still have 1266 FPS and 1068 FP of energy. Thats more then the 30/30 has at 100 yards. <br> <br>We hunt in teams of at least two and we have NEVER lost an animal yet in all these years.. <br> <br>Gene Williams you were right on with your explanation concerning the RELAXED animal who never even heard a shot. When an animal is hit (lets say the middle of the rib cage) by a short range shooter, the animal hears the muzzle blast which in turn, turns on the adrenalin and he will run for ever because he has just had the hell scared out of him. When we hit that same animal in the same area, he NEVER heard a thing and will just lay down and die on the spot. They respond totally different and that's what the short shooter can't seem to understand. <br> <br>If anyone is still in doubt, think of all the arms companys that have tooled up to sell LR rifles such as the Sendaro, Larado, Sako Inter-continental and others. The longrange way is here and if we can help the new shooter/hunter to do it correctly, we will surely try. <br>It's not for everyone but it sure is getting popular. <br> <br>If there are still any doubts get hold of Butch Keen at --Keenvisionvideo ![](https://www.24hourcampfire.com/images/graphic_ampersand.gif) suscom.net--. <br>Boyd has his phone number i'm sure. Butch has made a truly fine Longrange video that is 1 hour long. It shows the actual vapor trail of the bullet right into the animal and many one shot kills on deer in PA and West Virginia. I think his longest shot on the video is 1350 Yards. The tape is $20.00 or $25.00 and to those that doubt what we do, look at the tape and watch how it's done and then you may just get a better understanding. <br> <br> <br>Pass the hot dogs please, the fire is about right for roasting now. <br> <br>Darryl Cassel <br>PR and Information Officer <br>The Original PA 1000 Yard Benchrest Club <br> <br> <br>
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Darrel, Boyd, Sealsniper, <br> <br>I'm glad to see all you guys over from "Long Range Hunting." <br> <br>There's nothing unethical or immoral about long range shooting the way you guys do it. If fact, there is nothing unethical or immoral about taking game animals by any legal means. Now there are "unwise" shots. That may be a 200 yd shot for the 20 round a year hunter, a 1000 yd shot when an experienced LR hunter is alone, or a 50 yd shot at a running deer in heavy cover by anyone. What is wise and unwise is highly dependant upon each person's skill. <br> <br>I find it amusing that many of the guys who bad-mouth ALL long range shooting don't think twice about swinging on a deer 50 yds away running flat-out in heavy cover. I am also tired of hearing about how "noble" these game animals are, etc. If we really thought they were that noble, we wouldn't be killing them. I also fail to see how taking a questionable shot on a deer or elk is "unethical," but taking a questionable shot on a prarrie dog, coyote, or bobcat is okay. This strikes me as very inconsistent reasoning. <br> <br>I do hope you stick around. Big Stick is right. When he first showed up, many gave him a hard time. I didn't give him a hard time then, but now I ocassionally find the need to do so.;) <br> <br>Blaine
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Hello <br> <br>Thank you for the welcoming and the very good insight to hunter logic that has been expressed by some. <br> <br>We only want to show and help the new or older hunter how we do what we do and help them understand. If they truly want to try the longrange way they will be amazed at it. <br> <br>Thanks for transfering the post over. <br> <br>Darryl Cassel <br>
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AFP, Boyd, <br> <br>I am glad to see you guys posting about long range HUNTING. I am no where near your league, I am a mere piker compared to the both of you. Maybe, one day I will cleanly kill a deer at 1000 plus yards, I can hope anyhow. <br> <br>So far my best kill is 420 yards on whitetails (3 in the past 3 years). I do have my 300 win mag worked out to 650 yards and I use 180gr BT's at 3180 FPS with a 27 1/2" barrel. I know this is a POP GUN compared to what you guys use, but I am getting there, slowly but surely. <br> <br>AFP - I did enjoy reading your assesment of a deer being shot at 100 yards, that MUZZLE blast scares the living hell of of that deer, off he goes. <br> <br>I have seen deer look around at a shot of 300 plus yards. The noise is so far away and often times it is difficult to tell which direction the shot came from. This is one HUGE advantage of shooting deer at extended ranges, the noise simply doesn't scare the living hell out of them. You are quite right, they DO act/react quite different when shot at 100 yards versus at long range. <br> <br>I have killed plenty of deer at less then 100 yards. For those that say, you aren't a hunter if you can't get closer,,,,,,,well, I just laugh at that, lol. I decided of my own free will to go the longer range route. I do shake like a dog [bleep] razor blades so I have limited myself to 650 yards, thus far. <br> <br>I applaud your efforts and the dedication it must take to be capable of cleanly killing deer to 1000 plus yards. My hat is off to you. <br> <br>For those that don't beleive you or THINK in their narrow minds that you aren't hunting,,,,,,,let em think whatever they want. It's to bad that such narrow minded people exhist. <br> <br>Good Hunting ---------at long range. <br> <br>Don ![[Linked Image]](/ubbthreads/images/icons/smile.gif)
Groove Bullets - Get in the Groove
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If Don had ever worked the pits he would know the bullet is there before you hear the shot. Back to school for you. -- no
A hint to the wise is sufficient! Experience is the best teacher!
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