Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Craig Boddington likes 'em............

I used to own a handi-rifle in 243, and it shot like a house-a-fire.

The Savage/Stevens is not a bad idea. Butler Creek makes a nice little Cadet plastic stock for the long actions, that's pretty reasonable, too. I have one on an old 223 for the kids, and they are getting pretty good with it. FWIW, Dutch.

BPCR= Black Powder Cartridge. Sillo= sillowett Using a black powder cartridge to shoot sillowetts..(45/70 etc)

I've thought of that. Problem is, when you cut 1-2 " off a SYNTHETIC stock, how do you re-attach the pad?

FVA--

Thanks for the input--one good reason for the Campfire. None of the Handi-Rifles I've fooled with have had any problem with stuck cases, but 3 for 3 is bad news. Sounds like their QC is going downhill.

MD

Once the stock is cut, Cut a piece of 1/4"plywood to fit inside of the rear of the stock. Snug fit and bond it in place with epoxy. Attach the pad to the plywood. I have done this for kids rifles.Rick.

I just bought a H&R Buffalo Classic. Fit and finish are excellent, accuracy is very good also. I have put 100 rounds through it so far with no extraction issues or any function issues at all. I am using wimpy Remington green box 405 gr ammo and some of my own more "adventurous" handloads. I have scoped it and it will be going Elk hunting in the fall.

I plan on getting the Ultra Varmint in 223 as soon as I can afford it.

I often wonder why the name "Boddington" seems to bring out the best and worst in people here on the internet. Thankfully I don't read most of the mass-produced gunrags. There are much more important things to do in the world than argue about the scribblings of a gunwriter(Sorry Mule Deer, no offense intended).

ZM

FVA,

I owned two .223 synthetic stocked ultralights or superlights (I can't remember what they're exactly called). The first functioned perfectly and was a real tack-driver. My Dad killed a few deer with it. I traded it for no good reason...I do that a lot. A couple of years later, I saw the same model "On Sale" at my favorite gun store, so I bought it. It shot pretty good, around 1-1/4" with most stuff (yes the first one shot phenomenally well...way better than the second). The second one though, would not always eject spent cases. I called the NEF folks and they said to send the gun in, plus money for shipping. I never did. I traded it back to the store where I'd bought it. I liked the way both guns felt and handled. I never much cared for their triggers.
[bleep]

I cut the synthetic stock on my boys shotgun, and just put a slip on limbsaver pad on the end..........it's still hollow, but doesn't matter.............

This may seem a bit off the point, but do you have any friends with rifles they've cut back for their children when they were younger? Sometimes the work of adding length to a shortened stock gets postponed and if your daughter could use a suitable borrowed rifle for a year or two you'd both learn a little more about what she likes ... just a thought. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

QC is back way up since marlin has had NEF under control for 'bout two years.
let your daughter handle as many rifles as possible that are within your budget. if she likes the NEF, i'd highly suggest the .30-30 instead of the .243. recoil 'bout the same, but you could download the .30-30 easier and still have a 100-yard zapper. if you get one, clean the action throughly with carb cleaner, spray out the inside of the trigger mechanism with carb cleaner. lightly lube with silicone. and clean the breech very, very well. with the rimmed round, you'll probably NEVER have extraction problems. get a scope mount for the .30-30 since it comes with iron sights instead, fit a good 2.5x or 4x and let her shoot, shoot, shoot, shoot. .30-30 ammo is way cheaper than .243 if you don't handload.
go get 'em.

Good, interesting points, fish280.

Mauser96, MD made some EXCELLENT points. Young shooters NEED to learn it's HITS that count, NOT how much ammo you send down range, and nothing does that and enforces hits like a single shot. Nothing's safer with young shooters, either, and THAT is REALLY important when you're starting them off. I've also heard it said that an exposed hammer helps with the safety factor, too, but I'm not totally convinced of that. It IS easy to look at it and see if it's cocked, though, whatever you think that's worth.

I've known several friends who've had the NEF's and the Buffalo Classic, and they've been very uniformly pleased with them. I've read on the 'net about the rough chambers that sometimes sneak by causing the extraction trouble cited above, but none of the guys I know have had that fate. It's easy to polish a chamber, if you're good with tools, though, so that's no biggie.

One thing that you ought to know is that NEF used to do trigger jobs for free if you sent the frame back to them. I don't know if that is still the practice or not, but I'd guess if they charged for it now, it wouldn't be a lot.

One buddy's .270 NEF shot fair, but he wanted to see what it would do, and he'd heard about free floating the forend from the barrel. He was in the drug store, and spied some Dr. Shoal's corn pads, with "pre-drilled" holes (as he put it) in the right spots, so he bought them, went back home, and put them between the forend and barrel where the screws attach. Darn thing will shoot with most bolt guns now! If her rifle doesn't shoot right out of the box, you may want to give it the "Dr. Shoals treatment." <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Don't know what she'd think about that, but if you don't tell her, all she'll care about is hitting itty bitty targets way out yonder. Great to see them smile when they do that, isn't it?

One other possibility you may want to consider, is the T/C Contender or G-2 they're offering now. A carbine barrel and stock set turn those guns into REALLY fine beginner's rifles, and the caliber selection that can be had reasonably is amazing. I'm thinking about getting a 21" or 23" 7 TCU or 6mm. TCU barrel for mine, and shortening the stock to just the right length for my grandson. The little fellow is amazingly adept with his hands, and I suspect is going to make a fine shooter, but I don't think he's going to take well to recoil. I may even use cast bullets, and cast them with dead soft lead fronts with harder shanks. They'd make fine starting loads, in any case.

The big advantage ANY singleshot will have (except for bolt action SS's) is length. Little folk too often get big guns thrown at them, and they just can't handle them nearly as well as a gun that's tailor fit to them. Fit is REALLY important for ALL of us, and maybe even moreso for the young ones, and it pains me to see folks put a full size gun in little hands, but of course I dare not say anything in most instances.

The neat thing about the Contender is that once you've got one, you can also get a .410 shotgun barrel for it (and maybe a 28 ga. barrel as well, IIRC), and a .22 LR, and you can also get a pistol grip and forend and pistol barrels in .22 LR and most anything you want when she gets ready for something bigger.

The Contender is really a gun she can grow with. You can pick up old stocks at very reasonable prices, and lengthen them with recoil pads as she grows, too, and you do all this a little at the time when and if she needs these items, which is always a good trait with the fast growing little ones.

The little NEF's are short enough and light enough, and they're cheaper. You may still need to get the stock shortened to fit her if she's to handle it well, but that's not very expensive at all, and if you're good with tools, you can even do it yourself.

If she doesn't like the recoil of the .243, you CAN use a .223 if it's legal in your area, but use a tough bullet. The 60 gr. Nosler Pt's should do well, but not all rifles with 1:12" twists will shoot them, and somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that's what the NEF's have. Haven't heard anything about the 53 gr. Trophy Bonded, but it may work, too. Of the conventional cup and core bullets, I think I'd try the Sierra Spitzers. They're a little tougher than the semi-pointed Sierras, and in 55 gr. should shoot well in your gun, and if she places one NOT on the shoulder, but up close to it in the lungs or chest, she'll have her first deer on the ground pronto, I think. The 70 gr. Speer is also a possibility, and it's likely at least one of these bullets will shoot in her gun. I've had several friends that went to .22/.250's and .223's for deer, and at first, results were excellent, but I don't know whether their shooting went south, or what, but they all lost deer before long. I suspect it was their shooting, but can't be altogether sure. I'd shoot a deer with a .223 and a good bullet, but I'd be VERY careful to place the bullet just right, or I'd hold my fire until another day, hopefully.

Maybe somebody can provide better info on bullet selection for the .223. My info's a bit dated these days. The .223 on deer demands the very best, and I'd rather load your .243 down, I think, than go with a .22 caliber of any persuasion. My son had great results with the 85 gr. Speer BTSP 6mm. bullets on deer, and that bullet doesn't have to be going all that fast to work on deer. A 6 TCU barrel in a Contender should be VERY light in recoil, and effective as well. I'd rather my grandson use a 6mm. bullet he shoots well than a bigger bullet he flinches with and is afraid of. A .357 mag. rifle barrel for the Contender is another possibility. They may even have that in the NEF now??? Just don't go with a 16" barrel in the Contender, because the lack of a long receiver puts that short barrel's muzzle way back close to her ears, and I suspect you'll find that the noise scares most young shooters more than the recoil. Hearing protection is a MUST.

Of course it goes without saying that you have to teach her a deer's anatomy, and from several angles at that, so she can learn how to place the bullet right, and that goes not just for the .223, too.

Boy! I'm really looking forward to training my grandson to shoot gnats! I'm jealous! He's not far behind, though. These times spent together are ALWAYS remembered, and usually treasured for life - for BOTH of you.

Good luck, whatever you choose.

I've owned 4 of the NEF's with zero problems. 2 in .270, 1 in .280 and 1 in .243. All were plenty accurate and the ejector kicked the spent rounds out sharply. That said, there is no mechanical extractor, so the spring loaded ejector could definitely be a weak point with a dirty or rough chamber.

The stevens 200 is definitely a good alternative. The local stores are selling them for $249. I'd by a cheap, used, wood stock ( the savage 110 stocks will fit ) and cut it down and add a nice soft recoil pad to make a youth stock. Also the .308 with the Remington reduced reciol loads might actually have less recoil than a .243.

Weagle

I have used 2 such guns in the youth models for my sons. One was a 223 with Trophy Bonded Bearclaw and one was a 22 long rifle. Both worked well. Cocking the hammer can be a little difficult for young hands in the moment of truth when an animal presents itself but they do manage ok. Key to any gun is practice. We have also used the 22 long rifle inserts in the 223 to get my sons used to the guns before I purchased the 22 version. 1 shot is all that most all kids will be able to make. They will not be able to make a running shot or shouldn't make a running 2nd shot. There will be time to reload for a 2nd "still shot".
I have recently purchased a ruger 77 compact rifle for my 3rd son that is coming along and it is probably ideal as a"repeater" and the size and weight with the short barrel is ideal as far as my uses go. As far as the 223 on deer size game I have been impressed with the 223 TTBC. I believe it kills on par with the 243 with less recoil (flinching). Now the 243 is no elephant killer but enough people use them that they are considered adequate as a low end power rifle. If the law allows in you area to use the 223 then as long as the range is kept under 100 yards or so then I see know problem in my experience. The key is to keep the kids interested. Get them close so they can make clean kills with a rifle they are comfortable with and the experience will have a better chance of being positive.
Another option is the Remington 270 managed recoil load. My experience is only one deer taken this past year by one of my sons and it was fantatstic. The rifle was a Savage with synthetic stock and muzzle break that can be turned off and on. The stock can be trimmed up to 1" with no problems and a full length stock can be ordered later when needed. My son has already moved on to standard 270 loads and I credit these mangaed recoil loads to give him the confiidence in the rifle. (I checked with Savage directly and they said their synthetic stocks can be trimmed 1" no prob.)

I have 3 sons that love to hunt so finding youth solutions is an ongoing process for me. These things are what I have found work for me. The managed recoil ammo is the best thing I am seeing though to help youth hunters

A pile of good info here. I thank you all for taking the time to type such thorough responses.

I've decided that more often than not I'll make that decision on the basis of the new hunter already having done something with something. That first rifle that Dad bought is all the more valuable if it is one that really fits the bill that some experience afield offers. That isn't to say that one should never go forth and buy a youngster what you believe to be appropriate, but I do truly like the idea of buying a "lifetime cartridge" for a youngster and evaluating performance for a year or two isn't a bad thing.

If I thought a child wasn't likely to hunt anything much bigger than prairie dogs, that would be one thing. If larger deer were in the equation then I'd probably do a .270 and initially go with youth loads, as the previous poster sensibely suggested. The first good shooting I ever did as a pup was with a single-shot and peep-sights, so I don't much have opinion as to action type -- semi-autos are for the experienced, though, not the pups. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My son killed his first deer last year with an NEF .243 Win youth rifle. He was 8 years old and small for his age. I got a package deal (.410, 20 guage, .50 ML, .243 Win) all for under $400. He shoots them (except the ML) all very regularly and in my opinion it is the perfect beginner's rifle. I started him off with reduced loads but soon found that wasn't necessary. The rifle regularly shoots 1 1/4"-1 1/2" groups @ 100 yards. I too believe in quality rifles/scopes etc. but let the kids learning curve take place while carrying an inexpensive rifle that don't mind being dropped or banged around or whatever else a clumsy kid happens to do. Bonus: He carries it around "Barney" style until a shot presents itself, then out comes a bullet and 'bang', one happy kid. Just a few words....I hope they help. It's very short length also helps while walking with the rifle, it's length compliments his height of 58". He shoots my Rem 700 SA .243 off the bench some but would rather shoot "his little gun". Have a good day.

Mauser96,

I've handled a few NEFs; their kinda like the Savage bolt-guns and mopeds and the girl you don't want your buddies seeing you out with. They do everything that you ask of them, and then some, without asking much in return; and no matter what, you always go back to 'em just because of what they do and the lack of fuss.

That said, if you have access to a T/C Contender, the carbine set-up on one of those, with a 21" barrel in 7-30 Waters or .30-30 makes a wonderful little gun; short, light, handy, still single shot, and it can "grow" with the little one. An Encore is similar, though a bit heavier.

Forgot to add, the T/Cs can now be had in 6.8 Rem. SPC, which ought to do just fine for hunters young or old out to .243 ranges on deer.

I've had 2 of them since shortly after the came out. 1 is a 223 the other a 270, both will shoot nice tight groups. Both seem to be a little short throated so you have to watch seating depth when reloading or pressures will get a little whacky and almost lock the action.
The 270's length of pull is a tad long for alot of folks, and the placement of the forearm slingswivel stud is a pain in the hand.
They aren't bad rifles for the money spent, do offer some versatility when set up with interchangable barrels ( you could have 3 of them fitted for less than the cost of 1 contender barrel)