Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Custom Rifles & Wildcats Winchester Model 70 bolt closure

One thing you need to realize is that using your "half cock" method you are carrying a gun that may or may not have the sears fully engaged with the locking lugs not fully rotated and seated. In that situation the odds for a negligent discharge are exponentially higher than by having it go off when the safety is moved. I asked a buddy of mine who is in research and development at one of the main gun manufacturers and his comment was that it would be thousands of negligent misfires using your scenario compared to having one with a safety being disengaged.

Sounds like buck fever! Truth be known a lot of beginners forgot to take the safety off. These shooters would be better served by the half-cock method than by the practice your describe above. But yes learning to release the safety would serve them best.


My reading of this is that the safety automatically engages when the rifle is cocked, therefore the shooter must release the safety before the rifle can be fired. Maybe this is how the Krico 902 works. I wonder if some revolvers or other exposed-hammer firearms operate in this fashion. This would mitigate the drop-test concerns associated with having a firing pin resting on a primer. While it's a little inconvenient, such a design really is very safe.


If rifle manufacturers know or believe that it really is that dangerous, I'm surprised they haven't moved to address (remove) the half-cock position - because I suspect the practice I describe is not that uncommon. I inspected a bunch of rifles recently, and the only one I found that doesn't have such a position is the Krico model 600.

Note that the Remington 700 "notch" is much less pronounced than the Winchester 70, and the Remington varies a little from one rifle to the next (some hold in the notch better than others while others do not hold in the notch at all).

My gunsmith tells me the underside of the cocking piece on a model 700 can be ground back to remove the notch altogether - something he does when building competition rifles. As such it would be easy enough for Remington to change the profile of the underside of the cocking piece.

You are way off base. The reason being is: THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A HALF COCK POSITION ON BOLT ACTIONS.

The so called half cock you are feeling is the combination of the sears engaging and the locking lugs beginning to cam into position. Your practice puts a live round in the chamber without the bolt being locked in battery and the sear surfaces not being fully engaged. When you drop or jar a gun without a fully engaged sear you exponentially increase the risk of a negligent discharge. This has zero to do with the manufacturer but simply unsafe handling practices on the part of the operator.

For the record - I have hunted with a LOT of different people over the years and never once seen, heard, or met anyone who carries like you do. If so they would have received a reaming on the spot from everyone present and the last time they would have ever hunted around me.

Maybe you should take notice that EVERYONE who has responded to your post has condemned your practice. Sometimes it is better to admit that you are wrong, correct your mistake and learn from it. Rather than pursuing a practice that is condemned from every hunter on the ground to the companies who build the rifles.

Wow...just wow!

To your original question. They don't click into any intermediate position. They can be made to stop at some intermediate position because of friction, but you are the one making it happen. You can do the same with a light switch, that doesn't mean that is how it is meant to function.

As far as the safety and how it operates quit trying to be a genius and listen to experience. There are only 3 positions to that safety. Each has a purpose. If you can't let one of quietly and quickly then experience is what you need.

Saving my breath....he still doesn't get it.......wow is right.

I think he's trolling...no one can be this irrational.

I'm still at a loss for words - and it's best it continues re: this thread..

'Irrational'??

You're too kind...

If he is not trolling, then he makes a strong case for the European position on stringent qualification in order to acquire a hunting license.

Shaking my head..........he needs some help

This in particular is disturbing!

Apparently a protruding firing pin resting directly on a charged and primed case is preferable to using a safety which acts directly on the FP!

Take a look at this. Looks like I'm not the only person to have used the "notch" as a half cock.

http://www.fishnhunt.co.nz/forum/YaBB.cgi?num=1301045304

No I don't live in New Zealand...

Some quotes from Wikipedia:

"...some early types of repeating lever-action cartridge rifles, such as the Winchester Model 94 rifle, had a half-cock position that was intended to serve as a safety mechanism, to keep the hammer away from the firing pin while holding the rifle when a round was chambered, such as when in a blind awaiting game to appear. Although the practice is today deprecated, the half-cock notch position on such rifles was formerly used by many hunters as a safety when carrying the loaded rifle with a round chambered while hunting. The half-cock position of the hammer did not serve a purpose while loading such firearms."

and

"The mid 1990s brought a change from the long-used half-cock notch safety to a cross-bolt safety like the aforementioned Marlins. Many longtime users, however, prefer the original half-cock notch safety design over the newer cross-bolt "lawyer" safety. The last Winchester 94s to leave the New Haven factory before production ceased in 2006 had tang-mounted safeties."

While those quotes concern lever actions, the first quote sure does make the Model 70 notch smell like a half cock. It also makes me wonder what the designers of the Winchester model 70 though about the notch in their design during a time when a half cock position was still considered a legitimate fire control technique by many.

I accept that my half-cock fire control technique was either never legitimate, or has long since been deprecated as a fire control technique, but I'm left wondering. Jack O'Connor would have known...

Remchester,
I read the link you sent then called my buddy who works in research and development for one of the major gun companies and had him read your link. He is familiar with the mentioned conversions. There is a major difference between your practice and the conversion. The rifles mentioned in the post have had a modification done that keeps the bolt fully forward but the bolt is NOT cammed closed in any way - it is simply held forward so the bolt handle can be closed easily.

And you can not compare a hammer on a lever action to a firing pin on a bolt rifle - they do not work the same in any way. The hammer has a half cock notch that is designed with the sole purpose to keep the hammer off the firing pin and to also serve as a safety.

What you are failing to grasp is that a bolt action in no way has any type of half cock. What you are thinking of as half cock is simply the engaging of the sears and camming of the locking lugs.

Even your posting you listed condemns the half closed bolt practice - read reply #19. And this from a guy who uses the half cock conversion.

As for the guy with the bolt half closed, talking in the clearing. What an idiot

You are right about Jack Connor knowing - he would have immediately kicked you out of camp for your practice.

Give Winchester a call and then you will know also.

M1, you have to understand you're trying to make a cement block understand quantum physics..

Ain't gonna happen..

He's a troll.

"because it makes a noise when released that can spook game "

BTDT biggest reason why I got rid of mine spooked to much game with that safety. As soon as I would flip it off they would look right at me . Takes 2 fingers to do it quietly, then you have to much hand movement. Nothing wrong with them at all I just didn't like them for that reason.

Ruger #1 would solve his problems..

Bull shidt....

Still don't like the ergos of the M70 safety as much as I like ergos of the three position tang safety of the lowly Savage 110 but I'm trying to get used to it.

As to the sound it makes, that is inconsequential to me because a very loud noise is very near at hand when the safety goes off.

That's bull [bleep] +P ! ! !