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I have a pointing lab and he is great at finding game, but has or at least I have, a problem with him giving it up, giving me the game. He has the drive for it and doesn't like to share.
Any ideas for getting him to?
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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Force fetching is an option, if you have someone experienced to help you do it. My dog is force fetched and now I won't have one that isn't.
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I've not previously had a problem with this in other dogs. I've not done, have no experience, with forced fetching.
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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If you have never done it look for a professional trainer. Force fetching should be done for 95% of the hunting dogs being used. The other 5% people just got lucky.
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I guess I've been lucky.
This one is head strong, intense, focused, has the fire in the belly, and doesn't like to give it up.
I'll have to see what is available around here.
Thanks!
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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Posts: 938
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Claycrusher is right, if you've never done, find professional help. Will make a huge difference.
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I'll encourage you to look into getting professional guidance. Recently had to do the same and the FF worked.
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How old?
Is he just refusing to let it go or chewing on it?
Last edited by battue; 06/24/11.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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Been thinking about this a little:
It is a fine line one treads with FF and the trainer best know their stuff. Seen at least one Dog essentially ruined from a psychological standpoint by FF. She was the best Grouse Dog I have ever seen, but FF almost ruined her.
FF is essentially required by the field trial people who require perfection or to make a Dog that doesn't want to retrieve do so.
A Lab from the right stock should be a natural retriever, and this one seems to have the desire to retrieve. It is the giving it back that seems to be the problem. Which is an altogether different situation.
There is a significant difference between a Dog that wants to retrieve because it pleases his master and one that does it out of the fear of pain. One does it for fun, to the other it is work.
If the Dog is young, I would go back to the basics-the lack of which was probably the cause of the present problem-and start over with the correct reward reinforcement.
Last edited by battue; 06/25/11.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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I agree with Battue. You might want to watch FF done by the trainer you think you'll use or another trainer before committing your dog to it. FF IMO is a system where the reward to the dog is the absence of pain and it can take a while.
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....and Dogs with the fire, on average, require more pain.
Better to start from the beginning and make it fun.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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I have a different perspective on FF than Battue does. The end result of FF is a dog that is consistent and reliable in how he treats game in his mouth. A dog that has an intense desire to retrieve goes through FF to make sure he understands the proper manners for holding something in his mouth, not to make him retrieve. I don't believe the only application for FF involves field trials or hunt tests. My dog has never seen either and she never will.
If you decide not to FF, make sure that the dog is on a lead during all retrieves. That way, you can reel him back in he tries to do a victory lap. Also, make sure that you give the dog plenty of praise before taking away what he retrieved. If you snatch it away as soon as he gets to you, he will feel like your stealing his prize.
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And they are both right, FF does involve pain for the dog. I used the ear pinch on mine. It was not any fun at all for me or the dog.
However, I know have a dog that holds everything I tell her to fetch in her mouth, until I tell her to drop it. What I expect her to do has been clearly defined and she acts accordingly.
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Sit, stay, come, give is the foundation that avoids many future problems.
laissez les bons temps rouler
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I never force brake a dog until they are at least 2 years old and 2.5 yrs is better.
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How old?
Is he just refusing to let it go or chewing on it? With some things it is a fun game. With game he will chew it up and eat it.
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,059
Campfire Regular
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OP
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Been thinking about this a little:
It is a fine line one treads with FF and the trainer best know their stuff. Seen at least one Dog essentially ruined from a psychological standpoint by FF. She was the best Grouse Dog I have ever seen, but FF almost ruined her.
FF is essentially required by the field trial people who require perfection or to make a Dog that doesn't want to retrieve do so.
A Lab from the right stock should be a natural retriever, and this one seems to have the desire to retrieve. It is the giving it back that seems to be the problem. Which is an altogether different situation.
There is a significant difference between a Dog that wants to retrieve because it pleases his master and one that does it out of the fear of pain. One does it for fun, to the other it is work.
If the Dog is young, I would go back to the basics-the lack of which was probably the cause of the present problem-and start over with the correct reward reinforcement. He does all his basic commands,so I don't think that is the problem. This one wants to be in control. Very strong willed and smart. I work with him every day with his retrives and a ball. I use a racket ball and bounce it all over creation, he loves it. But upon his return, he will run past me. Kinda like teasing me, see what I have that you want. A challenging pup. He is a little over a year and a half.
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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He looks forward to these sessions, I do it twice a day, mornings and evenings.
As it gets close to the normal time to go, he will come get me, and push my arm or climb into my lap, sorta saying, "ok, it's time, lets go".
If he gets the paper, when he gets back inside he wants us to chase and catch him. A fun game. He hasn't figured out the give part of retrieve.
When we are out with the ball, if he won't give it up, I'll say "ok lets go back inside" he will imediately give it up.
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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Campfire Regular
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If you decide not to FF, make sure that the dog is on a lead during all retrieves. That way, you can reel him back in he tries to do a victory lap. Also, make sure that you give the dog plenty of praise before taking away what he retrieved. If you snatch it away as soon as he gets to you, he will feel like your stealing his prize.
That is exactly what it is like, a victory lap.
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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Campfire Regular
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I don't know much about FF, and I don't think I'm ready to go there. I have not experienced this with other dogs, they were always eager/ready to give from an early age.
There is no accounting for taste.
Experience is a great thing as long as one survives it.
Generally, there ain't a lot that separates the two however,
Barely making it is a whole lot more satisfying than barely not making it.
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