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Good point. I think you are correct.

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In conclusion, Mach 1.2 is well known as the high limit of the transonic velocity zone as can be seen in the following quote from Wikipedia External Ballistics.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The transonic problem: When the velocity of a rifle bullet fired at supersonic muzzle velocity approaches the speed of sound it enters the transonic region (about Mach 1.2�0.8). In the transonic region, the centre of pressure (CP) of most bullets shifts forward as the bullet decelerates. That CP shift affects the (dynamic) stability of the bullet. If the bullet is not well stabilized, it cannot remain pointing forward through the transonic region (the bullets starts to exhibit an unwanted precession or coning motion that, if not damped out, can eventually end in uncontrollable tumbling along the length axis). However, even if the bullet has sufficient stability (static and dynamic) to be able to fly through the transonic region and stays pointing forward, it is still affected. The erratic and sudden CP shift and (temporary) decrease of dynamic stability can cause significant dispersion (and hence significant accuracy decay), even if the bullet's flight becomes well behaved again when it enters the subsonic region. This makes accurately predicting the ballistic behavior of bullets in the transonic region very difficult. Further the ambient air density has a significant effect on dynamic stability during transonic transition. Though the ambient air density is a variable environmental factor, adverse transonic transition effects can be negated better by bullets traveling through less dense air, than when traveling through denser air. Because of this marksmen normally restrict themselves to engaging targets within the supersonic range of the bullet used.


The reason most long range shooters stay above Mach 1.2 is also supported in another quote from Wikipedia.

Originally Posted by Wikipedia
Doppler radar measurement method: Some of the Lapua-provided drag coefficient data shows drastic increases in the measured drag around or below the Mach 1 flight velocity region. This behavior was observed for most of the measured small caliber bullets, and not so much for the larger caliber bullets. This implies some (mostly smaller caliber) rifle bullets exhibited coning and/or tumbling in the transonic/subsonic flight velocity regime. The information regarding unfavorable transonic/subsonic flight behavior for some of the tested projectiles is important. This is a limiting factor for extended range shooting use, because the effects of coning and tumbling are not easily predictable and potentially catastrophic for the best ballistic prediction models and software.


The useful range of a load is determined by where the remaining velocity drops to Mach 1.2. Those who want to go further should use larger caliber bullets if the Lapua Doppler radar data is to be believed.

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A lot depends on the application too.

The criteria for competetive target ammo is a lot different from other uses. Snipers in current wars are making a lot of kills well past Mach 1.2.

Hunting ammo is another game altogether. Most high velocity stuff probably wants 1600-1800 fps minimum. But muzzle loaders, 45-70s, handguns, and similar can work well into subsonic velocities.

Lots of variables depending on your equipment, and purpose.


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Great post, MM

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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
A lot depends on the application too.

The criteria for competetive target ammo is a lot different from other uses. Snipers in current wars are making a lot of kills well past Mach 1.2.

Hunting ammo is another game altogether. Most high velocity stuff probably wants 1600-1800 fps minimum. But muzzle loaders, 45-70s, handguns, and similar can work well into subsonic velocities.

Lots of variables depending on your equipment, and purpose.


You are very correct. If snipers are using a .308 with M118LR ammo, their rounds are going below Mach 1.2 around 750 yards, further depending on elevation. For those hits they are able to make beyond that range I am sure they can inflict nasty wounds and kills. I would hate to be hit by a 175gr SMK even subsonic. One must also understand that these bullets are not designed to expand, the open tip is only an artifact of the production method used to make these bullets.

I was not aware that other let alone, most LR shooters are looking to be above Mach 1.2 at the target; all the ones I ever talk with just want to be above the sound barrier. When I explain that I look for Mach 1.25, I've never had anything to which to point that supported my theory except for the aeronautics sites. Now I have more.

My purpose is to punch the paper, the sniper's purpose is to hit the target. The hunter's purpose is to have the bullet expand to get a humane kill and the minimum velocity needed to do that depends greatly on the bullet.

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The Lapua Doppler radar data shows that smaller caliber rifle bullets are more likely to experience problems when they drop below Mach 1.2. That could be why the longest sniper kills are with 0.338 and larger calibers. From Wikipedia Longest Recorded Sniper Kills.

[Linked Image]

Seems that if you're going to go past ranges where remaining velocity drops below Mach 1.2, then you should be using a larger caliber. That backs up what you said about muzzle loaders, 45-70s, handguns, and similar can work well into subsonic velocities. Even so, the Lapua data shows that accuracy drops off as a result of going through the transonic range.

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Interesting that the maximum effective range of a 7mm Magnum is only 100 meters farther than the 7.62x51 round.


I like to do my hunting BEFORE I pull the trigger!
There is only one kind of dead, but there are many different kinds of wounded.
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Those MEF comparisons are fairly meaningless without specifying the bullet, muzzle velocity, and elevation.

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+1; His charts are probably based on store purchased ammo. Roll your own and check them up against store purchased ammmo --big diff.


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If you follow the link it tells you that ATK is the source of the MER data. You know, ATK as in a major defense contractor. It�s dummied down data for politicians and executives, but at least it�s something. Would be interesting to see that 14.5x114mm in action.

IC B3

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