Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 6.5-06 and 130 Scirocco II loads

Yeah!

And Litzy has shot them too!

Haha




Why do you come here asking then? goofy

Because I don't have a Swift manual. I think I said that already. And if you'll take notice, at least one knowledgeable poster replied with good load data for the cartridge I asked about. Mule Deer also gave me a good load for 140 Bergers, they were shooting at 3,000 with 4 into 1/2" for me yesterday. So I know he's not just bullsh**ing.

Why do you reply if you don't have any load data for the cartridge I asked about?

Asinine.

Why do you whine about Litz under-estimating the BC of the 155 Scenar when he's more generous than Lapua with the published BC? Something you can look up in 30 seconds?

Moronic.

That Swift was about the only bullet I couldn't get to shoot in mine. Really wanted that to work as well but couldn't pull it off. Mule Deer's info on the 6.5-06 was very helpful to me as well. Let us know how they do for you.

Well, this rifle seems to really like I-4350 for bullets from 120-130. It's an Ackley by the way. Shoots 123 Scenars and 120 NBTs really well with I-4350, so I tried it with some S-II's yesterday. I also tried R-22 and H-1000 with the S-IIs and neither combination shot well at all.

Then I shot the I-4350 loads. They didn't shoot well at lower velocities. The groups didn't get down to 1" until I worked up to 3,050, then they started to shoot. That was as high as I'd loaded so I need to go back with some loaded above that but I'm optimistic and I'll let you know how they shoot.

Brain Litz listing the G1 BC of the Lapua Scenar at .459 not .508.

http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/index_files/Lapua_Scenar.pdf

I use the G1 of .508 to hit nuts on at all ranges from 400, 500, 600, 700, 800, and 1000 yards.

I also use the G1 BC of .571 for the 6.5 S2 bullet to do the same. It's on.




I did, from the above post,


From Ramshots Load Guide.
http://www.ramshot.com/powders/loadguide/Ramshot4.5.pdf



I quoted you under the RS Guide to be safe.

If the G1 BC for the 155 Scenar is .508, why does Lapua list it as .460 on their website here. Are they wrong about their own bullet? That doesn't add up:

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading

In Litz's new book, the one I referred to, he lists the 155 Scenar BC as slightly above .460.

Like I said before, you may be right about the BC of both the Scenar and the S-II for all I know, but I don't need a ration of sh** for being skeptical of what I read on the internet from unknown sources. Especially when the bullet manufacturer itself does not agree with those sources.

I hope you can shoot them at distance and find out for yourself.

Let us know.

I will do that. But I don't have ready access to a 1,000 yard range, only 500 meters. Thanks for the 284 data, by the way, not having been around one I did not know that the 6.5-284 and 6.5-06 data are just about identical.

I may have to try some Magnum, if the I-4350 doesn't pan out.

If I can get that bullet to shoot accurately at 3,150, I don't really care what the BC is.

May I ask as to what brass you guys are using? .30/06,.270 or 25/06? I just bought a nice Mauser and want to get it running asap...

I've necked up WW and Norma .25-06 (had a bunch laying around), and necked down Norma .270.

I like the necked down .270 better, I can feel the "donut" at the bottom of the neck when I seat bullets in the necked-up .25-06, both Norma and WW, and the average runout on the necked down .270 rounds is a little better than the .25-06.

"Moosemuncher" (IIRC) shoots a 6.5-06 too, and told me he favors .270 brass for those reasons also.

I'd be interested in hearing what Mule Deer uses.

I've shot my best groups so far with the .270 brass also but that could be a coincidence of having loaded the best bullet/powder combo in the .270 brass. I only have about 140 rounds through it so far, haven't compared the .25-06 and .270 side-by-side with a good-shooting load.

If I was starting from scratch I'd order good .270 brass. The only drawback to using .270 is you'll need to trim it back a good ways, if you don't have an electric trimmer make sure you can at least chuck up a drill to your hand trimmer.

When I started working for Berger, my first order of business was to fire all the bullets for BC, which is why most of the BC's were revised down from their previous computer estimated values. Most have not changed since that initial re-assessment about 3 years ago.



I don't publish BC data on any bullet that I haven't tested. If there is another new version of this bullet that's different on the inside but the same external shape as the one I've tested, then it's BC will be the same.



Lapua advertises a G1/G7 BC of .460/.230 for the .30 cal 155 Scenar based on their radar testing. I published a G1/G7 BC of .462/.236 based on my acoustic testing of the same bullet. If a different number works for you, that's fine. But stating that the numbers published by two independent professionals are 'wrong' is a little reckless.



Again, I shoot/test EVERY bullet that I publish BC data for; most of them on more than one occasion.



The reason for my post is not to argue with some anonymous internet people about the accuracy of BC's. I replied to set the record straight about my methods, and to offer a warning to readers about the mis-information that's so prevalent on the internet. Far too often in our sport opinion, often based on mis-interpreted observation and here-say is passed off as fact. SU37's posts in this thread are a shining example of this. Readers can choose to believe the industry professionals (when they weigh in) who publish their methods and results for all to see, or they can choose to believe anonymous internet guys. It's critical thinking 101.

-Bryan

I'm glad to hear from Bryan here to set the record straight. Good for me, him, and all of us.



I guess I'm still a little ticked off when about 3 years ago I place an order with Leupold for a BDC dial based on your 6.5 140 grain bullet. You changed your G1 BC from .612 to .596 or something like that and then changed it back to .612 . This was after I had them make one up for the lower BC.
And after I had called Berger to make sure they were positive it was the lower BC.

For what ever reasons you changed your mind on the BC.
It seemed you were a "shinning example" of being inconsistent, especially after shooting the Swift S2 to 1000 yards and seeing for myself that it's advertised BC of .571 was spot on.

Are you saying that Swift is wrong with their published BC's?

In regards to Lapua published BC why are we seeing from every outlet that sells them advertising a .508?

I don't doubt your credentials Bryan and I have a great deal of respect for you.

But I know what has worked for me and i also don't have time for internet BS.


And for gosh sakes!
Please remove the bottom picture of this goof with a rifle pointing into his gut.
Bad form brother.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Hunting%20Bullets.html

edit to add

btw, you make a heck of a great hunting bullet.

The BC was never revised back up to .612. I suspect what happened was that you got an old box of bullets that had the old BC on the label, or perhaps a mistake was made when printing a new label for a new box of bullets and the old number was accidentally used. It's regrettable but mistakes do happen sometimes and I apologize for any inconvenience this caused you with your BDC. I can tell you the BC was never intentionally revised back up.

I won't speculate as to why the advertised BC of .571 for the swift bullet worked in your system, but I can tell you I measured it the same way as all other bullets and the BC I published was the result. Not gonna argue about it.

Lapua's modification to their BC's is relatively recent, so I suspect the old number .508 is simply slow to update. The most current information is on Lapua's new website and it's .460. The re-sellers have old information.

I don't have anything to do with the website, but I'll make a suggestion about removing the picture you linked. We have tons of 'success story' pictures and I'm sure it wouldn't be too difficult to find one without a safety problem.

-Bryan

I got some tiny groups yesterday using H4831, but only at about 2,950; above that the groups opened up. Cloverleafs at 2,950 with a tough hunting bullet/good BC is nothing to sneeze at, but it doesn't take advantage of the cartridge so I'll keep at it. I have some N560 on the way as per MD's load and I'll let you know how that works when I get to it. Also will probably try some RS Magnum.

On the bright side, the Berger 140's are shooting 1/2" at 3,075 with H-1000.

Brian-Just curious why the 6.5 140 B.C. is still listed as .612 on the Berger website?

http://www.bergerbullets.com/Products/Hunting%20Bullets.html

I stand corrected; the G1 BC for that bullet is .612.

In this case, I don't know how/why the other lower number was possible; it may be that was the labeling error...?

Admittedly my above response was made without consulting any references, just based on my knowledge that the BC's were only revised once, and not twice.

Sorry for the confusion,
-Bryan

And while you're at it, I don't like that bright orange color on the Berger Hunting vld box, for cryin' out loud, would you please take care of that?

Just kidding, thanks for posting.

Not only does Bergers Web site show a G1 BC of .612 this is their latest label as well.








Not only my system but others as well confirmed what i was seeing. So I'm not the only one.




No Bryan, It was changed on your web site from and original .612 to .59 then changed back again to .59. I even used to have labeled boxes where the BC was labled .59.
And again, I called Berger before I went to Leupold to make sure this .59 was the correct BC, they, Berger said yes.

Well, I shot some more S-IIs today. Still not there. Tried N560, RS Magnum, and 7828 ssc. Best was 7828 at about 3,115, shot an inch but I only had three loaded up. Above that opened up and definite pressure signs just above 3,200.

N560 shot 2" groups from 2,950 to 3150. RS Magnum may be OK at around 3,100 I need to shoot that one some more. 4 at 1 3/4" but three were at 1", could have pulled one. Definite pressure signs at 3,230 though.

Kind of disappointing, the rifle shoots small groups with 140 vlds and 123 Scenars.

The S-II seems to be a lot more particular than other bullets in this rifle.

For Mule Deer and SU, how far off the lands are you?

Update, so far 7828ssc works best in this particular rifle at 3,100 fps; 3 shots @1" and 4 or 5 @ 1 1/2", which are twice the size of groups I can get with other bullets. I've tried 5-6 different powders.