Home Forums Reloading Big Game Rifles 7mm Rem and the Berger VLD -- what gives?

Yes, 100 yards. It's hard for me to go to the woods with a load that doesn't shine at 100 yards, but I know what you're saying. It may settle down out past 250.

You've been very lucky. I have H-1000 and RL-19 at the ready; I think I'll try the primer switch first.

Try some RL-22. Why so bent on getting the Bergers to shoot anyway? mtmuley

Ive always used Rem 9 1/2, but that was with IMR4831, I think them 215 are too hot of a primer unless youre trying to ignite more than 80 grains, try a slightly less "hotter' primer like the WLR or even the 9 1/2, and try to seat that VLD .005' from the lands if you can. Good luck.

They have an ultra-high BC. Also, I like a challenge.

The 162 Amax has a higher BC.

625 vs. 617

Richard,

Retumbo should do it however if you want to try another powder give 7828 a try first. I have tried H1000 and H4831 and RE22 in my 7 using the Berger 168's and even though the others were descent 7828 and Retumbo worked better for me.
A couple of those groups were pretty good. Did I read in your original post you were shooting 6 shot groups? If so I would try the best looking combination and do a couple of three shot groups. From the looks of your targets I am betting 3 shot cloverleafs under .500".

Dave

I'm not sure that the performance is equivalent on big game. At least the demonstrated performance.

Dave, I usually shoot five shot groups. I can pretty much count on one being away from the other four every time with this load. My rest setup is BR quality; my scope is an 18X Swarovski with an ultra fine reticle, and it's got a Jewel trigger set light. And, I can shoot.

There is something about this load that just isn't quite "on," and, while it's good enough, it isn't good enough for me. I'm like that. This rifle will make one ragged hole when everything is right, and it will do it over and over again.

All the hunting reports I've heard on the 162 Amax have been stellar.

Much better than the Berger I'm told.

This from VERY experienced hunters who've used them extensively.

I'll find out this hunting season since I'm using these two bullets as my primary bullets in both my 280AI and my 7RM.

I haven't heard that. Honestly, I'm skeptical of both bullets, but I'm going to go out on a limb with the Berger. Call it morbid curiosity.

I may be placing too much emphasis on the fact that Berger endorses their bullet for hunting, and Hornady emphatically states that the AMax isn't suitable for hunting. I've toyed with the idea of testing the AMax in the field, however.

Bryan Litz tested the BC of a lot more bullets for the second edition of his book, and lists the 162 A-Max as .599. Since he does the testing for Berger, that's where the .617 BC for the 168 VLD comes from.

When working with a new bullet I normally try 2-3 powders and find which one shoots best before dinking with seating depth. If you're determined to use Retumbo (an excellent powder in the 7mm Magnum) it wouldn't hurt to try a couple of other primers.

I've shot quite a few animals the VLD's, and seen probably four times as many shot by other folks. They work just like Berger says they do on game.

Thanks JB. I'm going to try an assortment of primers with the 70.5 grain charge and Retumbo. It was a ladder test that got me to that starting point. If that doesn't work, I think I'll try both H1000 and H4831SC. I also have RL-19, but I'll likely have worn out my barrel by then.

Interestingly, I tried a few of the HSM 168 VLD loads, as a friend had a box of them. My gun shot them extremely well. Out of curiosity, I pulled one of them apart, and it looked an awful lot like H1000. The charge was 70.2 grains, however, and that's slightly over max as stated by Berger. May be something else.

I don't know if it makes a difference or not, but I have a trophy hunter from a few years back that has one of the best of the west guys talking about loading and stuff.
They loaded 168 Berger and 73.5 grains of Retumbo for the speed of 3076FPS using 9 1/2 primer I think. I have data I found online that was obtained from Berger that 70.6 was max for the 168 and Retumbo. HSM has the same 3076FPS as the article in Trophy Hunter. Wonder if there is anything behind that or if the exact speed is just a coincidence?
So if the powder is slightly over max, it wouldn't surprise me since most loads from what I have learned from others are consevative.

As a comparison,
According to Hornady my max should be 70.2 or something like that for the 154's, I went to 70.4 and can probably hit 70.6 without preassure signs(I hit preassure at 70.8). They claim 2900FPS and I got 100+FPS better than that.

Sure wish I knew what your Speeds are with those bergers. I wanna try some out of my 7 mag. Its a 700 sps with a 26" tube.

Good luck buddy!
Kique

I would think Retumbo is too slow to get good consistent working pressure.

FWIW, QuickLOAD only calcs 51K psi with the 70.5gr charge.

Thanks. I'll post my speeds when I get my chrono out again.

Interesting....I didn't know that. That's 10k under max. I'm also getting sooty case necks, which can indicate an under pressure situation. Now I'm compelled to try a faster powder. I've got 7828, H4831 SSC, H1000, and RL-19.

I'll tell you that at 70.5 grains Retumbo, I'm just starting (barely) to get extractor marks on the case head. Of course, that's in Miami in July.

I've got to get myself a copy of QuickLOAD.

If you're getting ejector marks, then the sooty case necks are most likely not indicating low pressure. You can't go by quickload estimates, go with your ejector marks.

And use your chronograph, if you're running at pressures where you're getting obvious pressure signs, it'll be the best thing you can do.

PS, just my opinion, but if I were getting ejector marks, even slight ones, I'd look at dropping down or using another powder before I'd start optimizing OAL.

I agree. Sooty case necks can indicate other things, and you can't have low pressure with high-pressure symptoms. One of the conditions has to be false. Of course, high pressure signs are not exactly a science either.

I sort of expected this gun to print better at a shorter COAL, which immediately eliminates any and all pressure signs in this gun with this load. Didn't happen, however.

You're right, high pressure signs are not science. But people much smarter than me have observed that once you get them, you're usually operating above safe pressures.

And if I had to choose either ejector marks or Quickload to believe, its a very easy choice.

If you want science, use your chronograph.

Lots of things can cause a transient pressure spike. If you're operating at the top of or above safe pressures, you've lost your safety margin. To me, the extra fps are not worth it, but suit yourself.