Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Black Powder Competition Muzzleloading Rifles

I start this discussion with intent to put the subject up for commentary and input by all, as an vehicle for education and sharing of information. Let me state categorically, I am not an expert on this subject. I stepped into the world of picket and slug rifles quite accidentally about 4-5 years ago and the biggest point learned to date is that I don't know the half of it. It is, in today's world, a small niche in the shooting world, albeit a very interesting niche.

The history of BP competition shooting is rife with respected names in the history of shooting sports in the US. Billinghurst, Mann, Warner, Perry, Pope to name a very few. What I want to discuss is that period in between the early days of social shooting with roundball guns and the advent of smokeless propellant and jacketed bullets, not because I have an agenda to push, but because it is a topic that can be discussed to the end of time otherwise.

Chunk guns are neat. Schuetzen rifles are perhaps the finest art crafted in the shooting world. They are for another thread and I'd urge anyone disposed to those disciplines to start discussion on them at their leisure. Mostly I'd like to keep this focused, in very general terms, to the era of the National Rifle Club, that being generally the post Civil War time frame until about 1900. I know for a fact that some of you here will know more about this than me and I welcome corrections and additions equally.

PICKET RIFLES

Somewhere around the first half of the 19th Century the use of percussion caps became common, as did the act of converting flint lock arms to cap locks. As far as I can determine the use of conical bullets for competition began somewhere in the 1840s. The advantage of conical bullet forms over round balls is well known, but many do not know what a picket bullet is. They take three forms: Sugarloaf, Flat base and Lewis style. They are illustrated below.

Sugarloaf style:



Flat base picket (one each end) and Lewis belted picket (center):



There are several points of interest here. The picket rifles were transitional in nature, providing improvement to downrange ballistic performance as well and a new slope on the learning curve. The early sugarloaf bullets were mostly cloth patched and as is attendant to all such bullets had little bearing surface. On one part it was difficult to seat the sugarloaf picket bullets squarely and they are well known to suffer from flyers. The flat base designs did better but still suffered from errant flight on occasion. The advantage of the design was found in the short length, usually less than two calibers, which did not require a fast twist to stabilize them. In my limited experience with picket rifles twist rates can vary wildly, running from the teens to 48".

Furthermore, the picket bullet was, in my opinion, a fertile catalyst for experimentation. Cloth patches gave way to paper and as indicated in the photos above, great variation in form. While rifles intended for round balls trended to deeper groove depth, this was not always advantageous to shooting picket bullets. Thus the belted or double belted Lewis design and other contrivances flourished as well. In short, the rifles were able to shoot both round ball and picket forms, providing a lot of latitude in application.

One should not confuse the nature of the bullet as defining the gun. As mentioned earlier, picket bullets are short, and as a result, fairly light for caliber. The pictured bullets on the notepad however range from .45 to .56 caliber and about 300-550 grains. The guns used for pure match competition were sometimes massive, and other times used in different applications, such as competition and shooting afield. Rules change over time and frankly I do not know what requirement the NRC had for picket class rifles, if any, but in today's competition circles the rule is "less than two calibers length." That means a round ball gun can qualify for a picket match, but that a more common slug rifle will not.

Examples of such hardware is found below with brief explanation where possible.

P.A. Reinhard 1876 .38 caliber bore, 33" twist, 7 grooves, .018" groove depth, 9# w/lollipop sight and hooded wire and bead front sight. Muzzle is turned for bullet starter tools for the gun are lost. Barrel is cast steel, bore is good with a minor pit in the chamber ahead of the breech plug.






A transitional D Hilliard .50 caliber, 16#, 16X scope, 16" twist. Bullet weighs 360 grains. The twist rate allows for heavier bullets if one has sufficient determination to deal with recoil.

In the first picture there is found a false muzzle on the barrel, 2 hammer dies, bullet mould and bullet, foot rest, strip cutter and bullet starter w/monkey fist. Most if not all of these accoutrements were common to competition rifles from this era.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN4273.jpg[/img]

Closer view with FM removed from barrel.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN4282.jpg[/img]

FM installed. The monkey fist is the brass disc with the hole in the middle. It is used to assist in patch strip alignment and/or controlling the strips during windy conditions. The patch strips are placed on the FM and the fist is laid atop. The bullet is then placed in the hole and lightly finger seated. With the fist removed the bullet starter is put in place to seat the bullet about 5-6" into the barrel. In many cases the old guns had choked barrels, meaning the bore was lapped to provide for a reduction in bore diameter at the muzzle of a very few thousandths of an inch (.001-.002"). Depending on bullet/patch/bore dimensions, some will swab the first 6" or so of bore with oil prior to seating a bullet to avoid tearing strip patches.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN4278.jpg[/img]

Hammer dies are used to swage a cast bullet into final form for shooting. The name implies it and in fact a heavy hammer is used to drive the cast bullet into the swage die by striking the ram...squarely. These dies usually have an ejector pin, in this case concealed by the base of the die on the left.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN4287.jpg[/img]

The mould:



I will be back later today with more on this. Feel free to comment at will.

what size are those bullets in?

In rough terms, the moulded bullet is about .47-.48 at the base and just over two calibers length. After a run thru the hammer die it's .498 x .885" as I recall. Gets shorter and fatter is the short version.

Very interesting. Thanks for the time to start this. Very good read.

Dan, thank you for posting all that info. I can't say I've studied those old rifles but have immensely enjoyed the considerable reading I have done. Ned Roberts book is the first that comes to mind. It seems Cline may have covered them a bit.

I don't have a burning desire for any particular rifle....well, that isn't completely honest. I guess the fire never really goes out. However, of late my interest in rifles of that style has been considerably piqued. I would like to have one to work with at longer ranges, those outside 400 yards and up to 800. Perhaps a 40 or 45. I'll be watching this thread. Thanks again for starting it.

Vic

Vic, it may interest you to know that once the slug rifles were established that matches out to 80 rods were not uncommon, that being 440 yards. 100 rod matches too. It may have been in the Roberts book "The Muzzle Loading Cap Lock Rifle" where I read of this, and as indicated by Sharps, that is a helluva good read on the subject we are speaking to.

With that said I shall continue....

I have barely touched on the topic of picket rifles but there is a bit more to say. Since they were a bridging step between round ball rifles and slug rifles, much of what you see on the Hilliard .50 above is found on slug rifles. The tools are generally similar as are the fixtures. As a point of observation the only thing I don't see often, is two piece bullet used for a picket rifle. The previous photo of the bullets on the yellow tablet...one on the left is a two piece, but is also the only example I've seen. Can pretty much guarantee you'll never see a slug rifle that uses a cloth patch. Both picket rifles and slug rifles do and use about the same equipment otherwise, even if parameters are a bit different.

Another thing that becomes apparent quickly is the lack of barriers to novel innovation. I've seen flint lock heavy target rifles and cap locks with the most modern aperture sights on Earth.

Credit to Plastikosmd for this one:
http://wyomingschuetzen.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1256



Large caliber RB rifle shooting at 200 yards. Although not visible in the photo, the gun carried an Olympic quality diopter sight with provision for colored filters. The smoke you're seeing here comes from 200 grains of BP. I believe the gun is a .58 caliber but am not certain of that.



One of the standard pieces of equipment for any of these guns is a foot rest. They can take many different forms, but all serve the purpose of providing a stable front rest which supports the weight and prevents canting. Sometimes the weight can be imposing. As much as 75 pounds or more. Here's a couple or three foot rests. They are attached either by screw to the bottom of the barrel, or by clamping action.

A P A Reinhard style brass foot rest of brass, intended to attach by screw to the barrel.



A .50 caliber of modern production by Richard Hicks on a Mosslander barrel,also attached by screw



This is a clamp on approach, though not a slug rifle or positioned where they are typically found on such guns. It also illustrates that some will to to great lengths with technology, materials and design.



More later....

Thank you very much, Dan. Enlightenment is the word that comes to mind. I know I'll be digging my copy of Robert's out tonight.

I often wondered how those cross patches were held in place while starting the bullet. Now I know. Are cross patches used dry, or are they lightly lubed?

You mentioned in the one instance where the top 5-6" of the bore is swabbed to accommodate the paper patches. Should I infer that swabbing the entire bore between shots isn't practiced, or is that up to the individual gun/shooter?

gnoahhh, patches are used both ways depending on what works and who is doing the working. The swabbing of the bore with oil is not universally done either. Two cases in point: The Mosslander above received an oil swab prior to seating the bullet, but the two guns I'm running do not. I guess it mostly has to do with the dimensions of the bore/bullet, whether or not the cross strips are oiled (some do and some don't) and how finicky you are. It should be said that the gentleman I referred to with the Mosslander was a two time National Champ with slug rifles and I am not. In fact, I'm way down the ladder in that department. Way, way down.

As far as swabbing the bore between shots in a conventional sense, I've not met anyone that doesn't do that in some fashion, but there are many applied methods for that. Variations of wet/damp/dry patches, how far down and how many, etc. One of the fellows that assisted me in getting started said once that having a slug rifle is like having 25 wives. True. But then, I really enjoy the venue so I'm not complaining. Each of these beasts represents the best effort of the builder and their thoughts about what will make it a championship quality rifle. They are each unique in many ways.

Anyway, during the post Civil War era the lessons learned from that conflict infused throughout the sport shooting community. I'm not saying heavy rifles and long for caliber conicals originated at that point for they certainly did not. I am saying however that in America the development of the technology took its own path. Shooting was a national pastime in the US then, much as pro sports are today. Big crowds, lots of celebrity and all that goes with it and for that we can thank the National Rifle Club based then in New York.

This is a period that brought a lot of talent, inquisitive investigation and technical evolution to the shooting world. Warner, Lowe, Mann, Billinghurst, Perry are commonly referenced in such discussions but they were not the only folks in the fray by any means. To really get a grasp on the scope of the activity takes a lot of research, and if one is really inclined to pursue this the best place to start is either the clubs affiliated with Friendship, Ohio (NMLRA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Muzzle_Loading_Rifle_Association ) or the Wyoming Schuetzen Union web site members. http://wyomingschuetzen.com/forum/index.php There are others, but I'll let each pursue their own avenues.

SLUG RIFLES

The most common thing I run into with discussion on this subject is a puzzled expression followed by "What's a picket rifle?", or "You mean a Remington shotgun with a rifled barrel?" Most folks are completely ignorant of this phase of our heritage. I was too a few years back.

Not sure there is an official definition of "slug rifle" or "slug gun" as they are commonly called, but here's mine: Muzzle loading Hindenburg launchers. They come in many calibers but the predominant bore is .45-.50 and they tend to shoot bullets in 3 caliber or longer lengths or thereabouts. Couple of examples below:

A .50 caliber two piece of 800 grains. The pure lead base is actually slightly larger in diameter than the alloy nose.


A lineup of various bullets including, L-R, .22 LR, .422" 300 grain paper patch, a .45 2 piece picket bullet, 2 x .50 caliber pickets (Lewis belted style) and a .56 caliber picket, the .50 caliber above and a .56 caliber 900 grain bullet used for light duty in a Perry rifle. All are swagged bullets.



I'll be back in a bit to continue with this and put up some photos of the slug rifle in all it's glorious diversity. In the short term you might want to peruse this site. Each of the photos in this link open a portfolio of photos so click on what tweaks your curiosity. There are a few picket rifles and other accoutrements worth a look as well.

http://www.pbase.com/halp/root&page=1

lets not forget Dan that there were also other rifles and bullets that predated some of the rules which in allot of cases excluded them
the Swiss and German Sutzer/ model 1851 field stutzer , also know as the Schmit/Rubin was one such rifle .
The Stutzer started out as a military rifle that was adapted for competition do to it high level of accuracy .
I own an original German stutzer that some !@#$@ dicked up the stock on . One day ill restock it proper and try her out
its bullet is also unique in that it uses a cloth patched bullet and it
The bore is 10mm or 40 cal





later verssion were converted to cartradge

Captchee, I know little about the European activities to tell the truth. Next to nothing. Well, they did/do a lot of interesting stuff across the pond and make some remarkable arms and as indicated earlier, we had no lock on competition technically or in spirit.

A montage of slug rifles follows:

HV Perry rifle with Reinhard picket rifle



The Perry rifle is .56 caliber, 18 grooves and weighs around 47# if memory serves.







The rifle belches at Homeland, Fl a couple of years ago:



The Polecat Porter Trophy. Mr. Porter was a notoriously effective shooter of slug rifles and called Polecat for a number of reasons....term of endearment it was, but it may have taken awhile for that to evolve as I hear it.



The Mosslander rifle on the line in 2009. Note the cast on the buttstock. The owner was left handed.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN3202.jpg[/img]

Another view:

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/DSCN3175.jpg[/img]

Tools: A starter and False Muzzle

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/7.jpg[/img]

Fascinating. I was unaware that there is still so much activity in the shooting of said rifles. That one rifle is built on a gorgeous Ballard action. Dan, I hope you haven't lit a fire in me that I can't put out...hehehe.

I too have experienced those who attempt to qualify what you mean when you say "slug gun" and are not speaking in the context of modern firearms. The ignorance of our muzzleloading heritage abounds. It's as if they believe conical bullets, telescopic optics and shooting beyond 60 yards with a muzzleloader occurred with the advent of the Knight rifle in the 1980's or perhaps with the TC Maxi-ball....then bragging about it. Nothing quite like re-inventing the wheel. At the Creedmore match in 1876 the Irish were using Rigby muzzleloading rifles out to 1000 yards and except for a shot fired on the wrong target by them would have beat the U.S. team who were using breech loaders.

Good read....keep it up!

Vic

A Seth Millard rifle on machine rest. Calilber .55, no other info available.



Another collection of loading tools:



A Billinghurst rifle. The simplicity of the trigger/hammer/spring design is something I've always admired about underhammer guns.




Cased and one would need deep pockets to take this home. This rifle was represented to me as a slug rifle and perhaps it is, but I rather suspect it to be a picket rifle due to its svelte contour and the patch cutter in the case which would produce round patches rather than strips. In addition the mould and hammer die do not appear to be especially large. Thinking picket but could be wrong about that.



Reinhard tools:


[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/Reinhardtools1.jpg[/img]

Slug rifle top, maker unknown. Polecat Porter Trophy to right, located at The Wyoming Armory, Cody, WY.

[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/IMG_0760.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/IMG_0763.jpg[/img]
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v298/muddler/IMG_0761.jpg[/img]

Vic, I'm going to deviate slightly off track for your benefit and serve up some Ballard-porn.

A ramble follows that has no outline, hope I don't get lost.

A sincere note of thanks to Steve Garbe, Keith and John of the Wyoming Armory for their help and diligence in anointing an ignorant heathen to the sport. If Steve's name does not resonate, think "SPG Lubes" and the light will come on.
http://www.wyomingarmory.com/

Thanks extended to the Heavens for the tutelage of the Late Richard Hicks, who was one of the finest gentleman I've ever known, and also one of the most knowledgeable and competent shooters I've met. Rich was the one that extended his hand and helped me get oriented to this world. He also tolerated an endless parade of silly questions.

Richard hailed from Ohio and was a frequent presence at Friendship. He was also deeply involved in restoring old slug rifles, building new but period faithful rifles, boring and rifling barrels with and without gain twist and all the other little things the average fella even think to ask about. Rich built scopes for these guns as well. He described the process in detail in a past article in "Black Powder Cartridge News". The scope on the referenced Perry rifle was created by Rich as were several others seen in this thread. There was something wrong with the Universe if a gun came into his possession or care that was not ready to run. He made it right and that was just his character.

My shooting career began with shotguns and quail. It was a long time before I came to own a rifle, but after that occurred and I got past the Army I began to fiddle, including reloading. Do not think I have no interest in smokeless powder guns for I do. I am however, well past the point where I find the activity truly fascinating. A case in point: I purchased an old 700 ADL from a friend who was disgusted with it. Chambered in .22-250, it had been his ranch gun and after several years the safety function went south and he experienced several unexpected discharges.

Well, I sent it out to Dennis Earhart for a rebarrel and repair, had it chambered in .250 Savage and the first two groups I fired went sub 1/2" and right at 1/4" with Ballistic Tips and Partitions in that order, at 100 yards. It is a superlative tool and serves a purpose, but it is not interesting. Even after reshaping the stock...it bores me. Didn't even make me work to find a load....

It's fair to say that rewards generally do not come so easily with muzzle loading target guns.

The one thing I've come to realize about this endeavor is that other than match rules on any given day, there are no rules. When you pick up one of these creations, if you are lucky, there will be notes detailing the past machinations of various owners. It will have all the tools too, and all you have to do is make some bullets, load some powder and shoot. Wrong. You won't be using the same paper, lube, powder and a lot of other variables will be introduced, so you have a foundation, but you get to explore the fine tuning. Little things make a big difference on paper at 40 rods. Mostly the guns are capable, whether they be old or new, but it's the operator and operation of the system where the details lurk.

Dogma dies every day a match plays out. I adopted the "one firm" strike or push on the seating tool theory early one, in part because I could do that with the guns I have and on another because the experts said that was how you do it. At Cody last month I lost to a fella seating his picket bullets by pounding on the seating plunger with a piece of pine lumber. All things considered I was not displeased by my string of 30 odd inches for 20 shots. He, the madman with the 2x4, shot a string about half the size of my own.

As indicated earlier, you do what is required to make these guns shoot, not what you are told. One is not working in the dark in figuring this out however. Every shot you fire will give clues if you are sufficiently curious about what transpires. For these reasons I do not find this pastime boring.

A case study:

Journeyed out to Cody in May for the 2011 NRC match hosted by the fine folks of the Armory and many others. They ran 5 or six matches, two of which I intended to shoot. One was the Polecat Porter/Richard Hicks Memorial Match and the other was a picket match, both 20 shots. The Memorial Match was at 200 yards under time rules. The Picket Match was set at 100 yards, no time rules. We shot German Ring Targets.

For those not familiar, they look like this after being mutilated a bit:



The 25 ring is 1.5" in diameter and each lesser ring is 3/4" wider, or 1.5" in diameter larger. The bull is 6" across. The penciled math on the right is scoring for string measure, the total representing the distance from center (POA) to center of hole, compiled in aggregate.

I suppose the average person would not be wildly impressed with the target. I'm not, save for a small detail or three. I'd had but one chance to shoot the gun prior to arriving at Cody and had no credible load established. Too, the aft scope base had a permanent set that precluded tension when the elevation was lowered for 100 yard shooting. So, with all the cunning I could muster I lashed the scope down with a leather thong and SWAG'd the load at 60 grains of Swiss 1-1/2 FG. In addition, the Hilliard rifle had displayed a nasty habit of fouling sufficiently after 2-3 shots that getting it to fire was problematic. Nothing big to deal with, right?

We sat down to shoot in a breeze of about 10-15 MPH, variable in direction, and my primary objective at that point was mostly to not embarrass myself beyond redemption. As it turned out, others had some issues too, and at the end of the match I came out ahead of most but not all. What I know is that I didn't shoot as well as the gun is capable of, not by a mile. My life still has purpose...

Previous to the picket match we did the PP/RH Memorial Match and I shot that one with a new slugger delivered to my possession 2 days prior to the match. Forget the fine points I told myself, DO NOT EMBARRASS YOURSELF!



The first five shots fired with the new gun...at 200 yards...20 mph wind...in front of infamous personalities waiting to pounce on me for malfeasance and mediocrity. No pressure there at all. After loading and shooting the first shot, a gent by the name of Kenny Wasserberger, who gazed thru a spotting scope worthy of interstellar astronomy, dryly said, "25 ring". I was pretty sure the audience was skeptical. Hell, I was skeptical.

In following order it went 24, 18, 24, 19, which is a testimony to the effects of wind. I should have had them autograph the target and proclaimed "This is too easy!" and stopped right there.

The other thing that dan hasn�t mentioned yet , that probably should be , is that at one well up into the 1930�s the use of the � stock rifles was frowned upon at many of the events . From what I have read , so much so that there was a conflict that was very much like that between what we have concerning modern and traditional groups today . So much so that it was actually documented in an American Rifleman article from 1937. I have a copy of that article and if there was a way to post a PDF for you all to read I would post it .
So if someone know how I might go about that I ll do it .
While I don�t know for sure but im thinking this is also one of the reasons why we have different categories of long distance shooting .
It should also be noted that the acceptance of telescopic sights was not widely accepted even in national competitions tell rather late . Those that we do see being used are often either low power 1 or 2X or are tube sights not true scopes .
So when we read and see pictures of these original rifles and their resulting target , like in Roberts writings, we need to remember that for the most part , the results we see were from open target type sights . IE peeps, shadows and such . This makes the results even more remarkable . Especially considering the longer 500-1000 yard ranges found at the nationals and world competitions

Another thing , not to interrupt dans very high quality subject mater .
But there was a question concerning modern vs. original barrels .
Their appears to have been a completely different mindset as to what made a good long distance barrel . I have read many articles that suggested that a softer barrel was much bore desirable then a hard barrel . Hacker marten wrote about this and went so far as to state that a good long distance barrel should be drawn so soft that the flats of the barrel could be shaped with nothing more then a scraper . In his case he specifically mentioned using a knife blade do draw the flats to the barrel .
Thus the requirement for a heavier barrel that was more stable in it sight picture and more consistent in it harmonics .

We should also note that these rifle were so highly accurate that the cartridge evolution was un able to replicate the accuracy tell very late in the event history . When those types of rifles finally did start wining events , them magin was so close that it often came down to the shooter not the gun and often times it was shooter error that made the difference

Well, what manner of magic did I pull this off with?



New build on an Allen Boxlock action, Krieger barrel (w/choke) of 33" + FM, 16" twist, .400" bore and .408 groove. It uses a reverse taper grease groove bullet from a Dave Moss mould that casts 370 grains of pure lead. MVA scope and the rig weighs 19 pounds.

There's much to be done before this rifle really starts to run and among the menu items is developing a load and alloy for the bullet. It may be the answer is in front of me, but then again, maybe not. I shot it with "load #1" as indicated in the target below. This is 60 grains of Swiss 1-1/2FG, .060 Walters wad, ~3# of compression followed by seating the bullet. The load sequence after firing was a damp patch swab (both sides) and dry patch (both sides).

Yep, it's GG shooter. It in not a new idea but it does seem to work. The thing you must remember in the difference between PP loads and GG, is that properly utilized paper patch precludes leading. Most slug rifles are shooting at velocities in the range of 1100 fps for a reason, and due to that I can get away with pure lead GG. It does not mean that's the most effective load, only that it works. Other than two piece bullets previously discussed, paper patch bullets are almost always pure lead. A final note on paper patches and false muzzles.

The orientation of alignment for a FM is not random. Generally a false muzzle is created by cutting off a few inches of barrel, reattaching it and then rifling the whole rig. After that the rifling alignment is as perfect as it gets. The FM is then slightly reamed to create a larger bore diameter at the front which tapers to the barrel/FM union and this acts to gently swage the bullet and/or paper patch to final dimension as it is loaded. The orientation of the slots for the paper strips is such that the seams of the strips will align in the grooves, not across lands. This is done with both two and three strip FM's, one of each being previously depicted in this thread.

If you happen across a gun that has lost tools and the FM, which is fairly common, it does not mean the gun is worthless. It just means you get to learn a little about thoughtful machine work when you build or have built a replacement. It's difficult, but not impossible. Other lost tools are more easily replaced, but at the end of the day you are paving new ground in context of the original builder's effort.



In addition to the load development I will have to contrive a foot rest of the clamp on variety. The "zero" I worked with was found in very fresh wind conditions and was at best an approximation. At 200 yards my next 10 shots during the match looked like this:



Danged wind.....another wife to deal with.

That will pretty much wrap up the dialog 'cept for a couple of things I'd like to caution all about.

1. When you take one of these creations to the range all manner of folk are going to flock around bubbling with questions, especially after you drill the X-ring a few times. STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING! If you allow distractions during the load process you will short seat a bullet and possibly ring the barrel.

2. Look at your target(s) with and inquisitive eye. They tell far more than the average shooter realizes

3. Be consistent with what you do in all endeavors but do not be dogmatic. These rifles will shoot, but it's up to you to find out the recipe and that may be a large part of the endeavor, and the fun. Shooting at the match is the least troublesome of the whole package and the rest is a lot of fun.

4. Remember #1...

whats with all this old junk?

Reference #1 above: That happens with anything out of the oridinary and the advice given to "STOP WHAT YOU ARE DOING" is darn good advice.

When all the new junk is recycled into car body parts for battery powered cars that "old junk" will still be winning matches and have considerable value. Wonder what an Optima CVA will be worth in 120 years.

i was speaking historically dan . not for today .
Part of just understanding the evolution of the change in the sport
most of what i have seen today are indeed 1/2 stock rifles even though alot of the chunk gun type shooting is still done with full stocks though not exclusively .
Im sure you will get to it but it may also help to mention the sizes of the targets , how a string is read on those targets . Might give folks a better understanding