Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ok, .243 on moose

Another vote for the Swede/Barnes combo.

Thanks John, I have some 130 gr Accubonds that will go into the swede if he uses it.

The swede/Barnes cobo is a gooder for sure, but I have accubonds, so they will get the nod if he uses it.

Not that you need it, but count me as giving another vote for the 6.5 x 55 Swede.

After personally helping to skin and butcher at least 25 moose killed with this calibre, and I had to raise my opinion of it. It is certainly not the minimum moose calibre, but you can "see it from here" -- I would not like to go much smaller (and with the mild recoil of a 130gr bullet in the Swede, you really do not HAVE to go smaller).

Cheers from Sweden,

John

140gr Accubonds

You and me both smell a turd in the roses. Everytime a post like this comes up I think someone is "messing with Sasquatch". Who knows common sense may prevail, eventually.

You need to hole both lungs. The Moose will then smother in about 30-90 seconds. I use a 358 Norma as my moose gun, unless I shoot the shoulder bone a two lunged moose will generally take the short side of 30-90 seconds to know it's dead...even with 4000 ft pounds on target. My wife uses a 6mm Rem Model 600. With 100 Nosler Partitions or 115 Barnes originals it works pretty well out to about 150 yards taking maybe on the long side of 30-90 seconds to let the life out of a big bull. We are very confident using it within it's limitations.

A 260 would no doubt be a better minimum but the 6 is what we have and it works with some application of discipline. Not sure it's what a beginner should use though.

If I were close and had a Barnes, Partition in 95/100, or 95 Ballistic tip, I'd punch the lungs broadside w/a 243.

That said, I would likely choose a 6.5x55 or 260 as I love 6.5s and the low recoil allows great shot placement.

130 Accubonds will kill a Moose fine but I would shoot broadside lungs and not drive thru bone if at all possible. A Barnes, I would use from any angle if need be, but avoid a hind end shot.

I believe the recoil in a Swede or 260 is only a few lbs more than a 243. One can load 'lite loads' for a teen to practice, and you can check zero with your 'hunting load' and when he squeezes the trigger w/o flinching, he will only need one good hit.

I would get the kid used to shooting lite loads and let him fire a few full power loads to have confidence. A 6.5 won't beat him up like an '06 and w/a 130 its a little shy of recoil vs a mild factory 270 130gr load.

Good hunting.

It took till page two for someone to say this? Voice in the wilderness, John.

Age has nothing to do with whether or not a certain caliber can be "handled" (John's hearing an echo now). A ten year-old neighbor kid shot my Siamese Mauser .45-70 (loaded to extreme) better than I ever did. On the other hand, at the age of 14, I was four foot eleven, weighed 85lbs, was indoctrinated into highpowers at the age of 10 (like a lot of unfortunate kids) with a curved-steel buttplate '94 .30-30. No gun has ever hurt more.

I manage to do pretty well now (at 6foot one,190) with the big stuff, but it is always a phsycological effort, and when there is an easier choice, I go for it. Big guys with big guns are always putting the touch on me before hunting season to use my range, and more often than not they shoot them rather miserably on the paper (but cannot bring themselves to admit misery when the trigger is pulled).

The ten year old that simply thrived on recoil (and still does)? He's now 16, 6foot, 220. His personal rifle that he can clean clocks with against big guys/big guns is a Swede Carbine. I make sure he's around when the Magnumbs come to visit. He shoots their rifles better than they do, and shoots his 6.5 better than any of us with anything.

Let me start by saying that I spend a lot more time on ballistics than I do on hunting. So this is more what the pencil and paper numbers indicate than something based on vast experience:

I think a lot of guys get into trouble with the 243 by using lighter bullets at high velocity. If a garden variety bullet impacts at more than 2800 FPS, the penetration will be less than it would at lower speed. More speed = less penetration. With a premium bullet, the story is a little different.

So if you pick the 243, I'd say go for as heavy a premium bullet as you can manage, and load it for perhaps 2750 FPS. Personally, I favor the Partition or the AccuBond. If you avoid a strike on a major bone, you'll get about a 16" wound channel and a dead moose/elk/deer. So I'm not opposed to a 243 with the right load.

All that said, I love my 6.5x55s and that would be my first choice. 140 grains of garden variety bullet at 2700 FPS is going to be pretty mild and very effective.

Tahnka,

Good post!

I developed a miserable flinch by the time I was 14, even though I'd been a pretty good shot with a BB gun and .22 from a fairly young age. The rifles that did it to me weren't even as powerful as the .30-06: a 7.62x54 Mosin-Nagant and a Savage 99 .308. It took me until age 20 to get rid of the damn flinch, and the rifle that did it was a Remington 700 BLD .243 Winchester.

A lot of shooting with the .243 (including 17 big game animals) got me to the place where I could start working my way back up the ladder again. Now I can shoot some darn big guns pretty well, but also have acquired enough experience to know they're not necessary for 99% of the big game hunting in the world, having taken quite a few animals bigger than deer with cartridges like the 7x57.

I also never had any trouble killing deer of any size with the .243--or .250 Savage or .257 Roberts, which are pretty much the same thing. Every time I hear stories about the inadequacy of the .243 as a deer cartridge these days I tend to assume that something other than the cartridge was the problem.

You assumed right IMO. A .243win is an awesome round for med size game in the right hands. Honestly....Ive lost count on how many Whitetails Ive killed with a .243.

Mule Deer,



Thank you!!!

actually, my youngest is now 15, large for his age, and handles all of my rifles well... he's got the common sense to say so when a rifles recoil bugs him, and i hope he never gets over that!!! he shoots them all but only when he wants to... we keep it fun, and he usually wants to....

of all my rifles, he has done his best field shooting with the Savage 99 .300, the model 70 .243, and the H&R L461 .222...

IMO, no teen hunter (or any 40 year olds either) should use any particular rifle to live up to another's expectations... what a miserable way to go about hunting...

Kudos to you for your straight shooting wisdom...

In North America, well into the 1970s, people were using non-magnum cartridges for just about everything.

WRT moose, most guys used 30-30s or 303s where I lived. I still use a 303 almost every year, but have carried others like the 30-30 for example, and wasn't undergunned.

There were also 243s, 308s, 30-06s, 35 Rems and milsurp 6.5x55mms in our moose camps. A friend of the family only owned one rifle - a Savage 340 chambered in 30-30 - and used it for everything. He never lost an animal to poor performance. That was back in the days when a fellow dropped by the store, bought a box of Remington Core Lokts and went hunting.

Things started changing up here in the late 1970s/early 1980s. More southern hunters appeared carrying different cartridges, and a new crop of magnums was on the horizon. Go into a store in northern Ontario anyway, and you'll find 243 & 308 Win, 30-06, 303, 30-30, and 7mm and 300 Win Mag boxes. Not much else.

The Internets mantra is that 243s are okay for women and kids, but should be abandoned as quickly as possible. "The experts" say that this cartridge just isn't up to the job. My question has always been,

"If the 243 is no good, why are you putting a so-so performer in the hands of a new, inexperienced shooter? By your own admission, aren't you dooming them to fail?"

My two cents. Load up a 100 gr. Partition and have at her.

"If the 243 is no good, why are you putting a so-so performer in the hands of a new, inexperienced shooter? By your own admission, aren't you dooming them to fail?"

I think the idea for introducing young inexperienced hunters to hunting/shooting, is to get them off to a low recoil/blast start - to avoid the flinch, and focus on accuracy and shot placement. A 243 esp. for non handloaders is a good option.

ANY rifle given to a new/inexperienced shooter is prone to failure no matter the power of the round - if proper practice and education on shot placement inc. from field positions and from different angles the game presents.

Looking at say Texas Trophy hunting magazine and all the pics in the back where youngsters start out killing deer with anything from 22 Hornets to 222s and 223s should answer the above question.

Those kids were trained well and practiced.

Shot placement is not everything, but it can usually overcome most anything, even bad bullet choices. Hit a moose in the eye with a 223 or 243 and see what happens, even if you use a varmint bullet

The biggest problem with a 243 is poor shooters, inc. grown men. The biggest reason it's not used more is:

A) Many grown men feel the need for more power - for their ego's

B) It's killing effectiveness is often underestimated or has been misunderstood due to poor bullet choice and/or placement.

Having dropped deer with even 70gr TNTs when that was what was in my 6BR or 243 died just fine b/c I knew I had to shoot a vital not needing alot of penetration, so I nearly decapitated one deer and another I just perforated the lungs. They were jelly!

As Stoney said, 243 is plenty for deer and used properly can take larger game. I believe Steelhead/Scott or someone posted about a 243/85 TSX combo taking black bear w/solid results.

I seem to recall native's up north using 22 Hornets and small 22s like 222 or 223 for Polar bear and other very large game, to good effect. I am not advocating, just presenting what has been done.

I believe Poor shot placement above all is the biggest cause for lost or wounded game - regardless of caliber/cartridge.

Seen it done. Don't care to see it repeated.

If he handled the 243 well I let him light the torch on Marvin the Moose in a heart beat. I know of more than one moose taken out via a 22/250 or Swift so a 243 will be more than enough.

85 TSX, 95 Noz, or 100 Horn would be fine with me.

Take plenty of pics! And enjoy the great opportunity to hunt with your son.

Dober

When I lived in Nunavut for a decade my wife and I took up to 10 caribou a year + being on friends hunts. Numbers pile up. Although caribou are pretty easy to kill I had the chance to look at wound channels from caliber 223 to .458 at all different velocity levels.

A friend had a 788 carbine in 243 that got about 2750fps with 100 grain factory ammo. Due to the reduced velocity that little bugger penetrated like crazy and killed very well. When we found the carbine 600 in 6mm we snapped it up. I loaded up some Barnes 115 grain RN Originals at the same 2750 fps. Again it penetrated like crazy and has been a good killer on everything we aimed it at in the NWT and Nunavut at up to 200 yards.

When Barnes discontinued the 115 grains I tested a bunch of bullets. The 100 grain Nosler partitions at 2900-3000fps penetrate just as well as the heavier Barnes and if anything kill stuff a bit faster. As a bonus the semi-spitzer version shoots into 3/4" groups.

It's not the best designated moose gun but it works if you are a calm game shot. Honestly the margin of error is no doubt less than say, my 358 Norma but even with the big Norma you better hit lung. Another bonus is that from my canoe I am less likely to be kicked out of the boat.

That being said if I had the money I'd buy your son a Savage ultralight in 260 or 6.5 Creedmore and he'd never need another gun in NA.

I have somewhere a gun digest with a report on the 220 swift.when it was new it was tested in alaska and a hunter killed about everything there with it with no problems, think of what bullets were avaible then. but that was a hunter not merly a target shooter and he knew where to shoot the animals for optium results. we have few hunters in the same catagory and feel they have to blow something in two for a quick kill.JMTCW

For some reason, I'm reminded of the guy that is just a fair upland game shot with a 12ga, starting his kid hunting with a "dandy little .410".