Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa curious on your thoughts of 458 and 416

Have found a 450TSX at 2300 to be about my limit recoil wise, even pushing it up to 2350fps really makes a difference. Was wondering if my recoil pad was bottoming out.

medicman,

Dang! That leaves me out, since I have found it necessary to limit myself to 50 centerfires, or my house would start leaking rifles.

Mule Deer

I am guilty of that as well. I have only 35 centrefires so I am hardly even worthy of being called a rifleman
Randy

I could abide to the 50 rifle rule if you didn't have to include rimfires!
How do you resist the little buggers? They just seem to stick to me when I go into a gun store

Who is counting rimfires? They are so much fun to shoot, so cheap to feed, and so remarkably accurate for the cost. I will not pick one up unless I am wlling to buy it.

Randy

In most rifles, getting to the 2400 fps mark makes the recoil much more snappy than at 2200 fps. Better to hit the mark at 2200 fps than have a rifle that is hard to manage at 2400 fps. But don't back it down too much, like the Mrs Brooks elephant fiasco with a .500 NE at 1700 fps which had piss poor penetration.

Killing power = the ability to kill game within a reasonable period of time after hitting the game in the vitals.

Stopping power = the ability to stop or turn a charge when (a) the vitals are missed, or (b) there is not enough time for the game to expire from the gunshot wound before it reaches your location.

The .458 at 2200 and the .416 at 2400 are roughly equal in killing power. Personally I like the .458 but whatever.

However, neither has sufficient stopping power to be considered a stopper. Many, many elephants, when shot in the head but the bullet misses the brain, will NOT TURN or STOP THEIR CHARGE when hit by a .416 or .458 caliber bullet, but WILL turn or stop their charge when hit in the head with a .50 caliber bullet. This assumes the bullet is of adequate sectional density, adequate toughness, and 2000 fps or faster.

Thus, both the .416 and .458 would be considered good hunting cartridges, but not good stopping cartridges.

The threshold seems to be at .470 NE, with the .500 NE, .500 Jeff, .505 Gibbs and up being good stoppers.

How often will the average client hunter need a stopping rifle? Never.

blaserguy,

There isn't any limit on rimfires...or shotguns, or handguns.

Plus there are combination guns, which don't fall under any category!

One of the "problems," however, is that my wife thinks the same way. However, she's more of a shotgun loony--which doesn't really help!

You are not the average client for a PH, "Oh No! Not him again!"

I think you may be referring to that "Will" guy on accuratereloading, as there are some safari companies in Zim who refuse to book a hunt for him due to his past behavior.

Then there's the 460 Weatherby. With a good solid like a Barnes or North Fork @2600 there is just no substitute. Then again I've never hunted elies like you!

Neither had Elmer Keith when he was considered a world authority. I would take you above advice Jorge. The .460 is only promoted as a poor choice by men that have not used it.

If the 460 weatherby cannot solve your issues, nothing bigger will either. I'm just not sure that many people will shoot that rifle more then once, few will do it more then a few times! It's a freaking beast of recoil IMO

I sent Barnes a 5 shot group once using their 400 grain X bullet that measures .611" or thereabouts.
I sent Woodleigh 17 targets shot on one afternoon using 2 different .416 Weatherby's and the .460 that all measured under .7 MOA and many were under .5 MOA, some under .3MOA.

These cartridges are wonderfully accurate and where most men fail with them, is that they try to load them to their top end which offers no benefit either on the range ot in the field over building loads that you personally can manage.

That 400 Grain X bullet for example could load to 2900fps and still put 3 under and inch. My preferred load shot at 2740fps and punched 5 in the same size and less and was far more manageable.

When I loaded heavy weight bullets I loaded heavier, simply because I knew after the testing was over, that I would only have 1 or 2 rounds to deal with in the field.

If I ever saw a hunter using a .460 With factory ammo and a new rifle, it would signify to me that he was not a rifleman.

I gave never shot more than 3 shot groups with 416 and up from the seated bench.
I tell myself it's not to screw up those three shots touching on the target.
Who am I trying to kid. I am just glad I am on target and don't have to shoot from the bench anymore.