Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa A question...

I apologize in advance for asking an out of place question. On the other hand, while nearly all fire-forums are quality sources of information, this particular forum has class. I believe this is where the more civilized folks meet who have perspectives that different than what I can find down at the gun shop. Further, I really appreciate the passion displayed in so many threads on so many different topics here. I have learned much here.

Progressing...

I have an 8-year-old boy who loves all things safari. He understands that his safari is "Continental" in nature for the foreseeable future. This year, he wants to hunt deer and hogs on our lease in west-central Oklahoma. Both animals can achieve respectable weights in this part of the country. This would require a significant step up in armament from his 1930's Remington Model 6 takedown .22 that he uses for squirrel and rabbits. I am considering letting him use a Sako Model 75 chambered for 7mm-08 that is sitting in the closet. He is a tall boy of moderate weight. I am concerned that even slower handloads of 110gr bullets (i.e. Barnes) will provide a bit too much recoil. The rifles that I have that flank this rifle are a CZ 222 Rem on one side and a Savage 99 358 Rem on the other. One is just too small and the other quite a bit too big.

Today, a friend mentioned some handloads he had brewed for a 7x57 a while back that consisted of 175gr round nose bullets over 10gr of 700x. He noted that their recoil was very mild, yet the penetration and expansion through 1/2" pine and wet phone books at 50 yards proved that this would be all that was needed for whitetail and hogs out to, he guessed, 150 yards. The velocity was better than 2000fps and, to his mind, the round nose bullet would provide very effective energy transfer. I anticipate that stands we would hunt together would allow for most shots to be within 100 yards.

Knowing that most of you are experienced reloaders, possibly having outfitted your own children, I would appreciate anything you have to offer in regards to the above listed load or that which you have used in years past. I was thinking that the Speer 175gr Hot-Cor Mag tip might be just the trick. Seems like a rather lumbering bullet.

Again, thank you for allowing me to ask such a question, uninvited.

-Brook

Hi MM,
My daughter killed her first deer at 8 years old with a 7'08. she is 19 now and has killed around 16 or so.
It is a Ruger Compact.

I took a 6 yr old tiny boy with me one day that wanted to hunt, but his Dad was in Afghanistan. He used my daughter's 7-08 and dropped a doe at about 80 yards.

We have three 7-08s in our family. Besides hers, my wife and myself use the caliber. My son took my 270 BAR and I was more than happy to swap. We use 140gr accubonds.

Feel secure that it isn't too much gun for an 8 yr old boy.

blessings,
Jerry

Your CZ .222 Rem with a Barnes 53gr. TSX ; 55gr. TTSX, 62gr. TSX; 64gr. PP ; 55gr. NP will be more than enough to take wt and hog with minimal felt recoil.

BTDT multiple times with my own two boys, nephews, and other kids I've introduced to hunting.

With my boys we started out with the 223 and TBBC and they worked perfect. When the Remington Managed recoil loads came out we used the 270 and 308 loads and I was quite impressed. The recoil and noise were great. The bullet performance on deer that dressed about 175+ at 100 yards or less was impressive. I do not know what these two bullets are but at those speeds they are perfect. I would live to have some of the 270 bullets to load in a 6.8 SPC as I know what this bullet can do. I have also used the low recoil loads for practice and when in the field I use the standard loads when it came time to move up to the real loads.
Shoot a 22lr as much as possible
Cut a stock to fit
Don't give the kid a gun with a sloppy trigger.
My oldest developed a little flinch on a break open 223 after a couple years. He was shooting better than the lock time of the rifle and it through him off. I went with the Savage Accutrigger and it got his flinch under control. It allowed him to "take up a bit of trigger" and he was able to get his timing correct. With my middle son I paid more attention to the trigger and his shooting has always been better than mine. The trigger and rifle fit are never discussed but are very important on a youth rifle.

Another +1 on the centerfire .22s and premium bullets...

I know a guy who's daughter took an Impala with a 7-08 at 8 years old. I don't remember what rifle it was, but the stock was modified to fit her.

First of all, whatever rifle you choose, make sure that the length of pull of the stock is not too long. Check by having them hold their trigger arm out to their side , elbow parallel to the ground, and trigger finger straight up a to the sky forming a 90� angle. With the arm in that position, place the rifle into their hand so that they grip it with the index finger touching the trigger, as if to shoot straight up., The butt of the stock should just touch the crook of the elbow at the joint below the biceps muscle. If it is too long. shorten it. This is critical to comfort and to shooting ergonomics.

Next, make sure they can center their eye on the scope without crawling up into it. One good dose of scope eyebrow can turn them off.

There is no appreciable difference in the 7-08 and the 7X57. I made reduced loads for my daughter in her 7 X 57, but she was 12 at the time of her first Safari.

The .222 is more than capable of going the job you want with the right bullets. I would use that and Barnes TSX bullets. FOstology has spelled out the weights nicely.

I'm priming my 9 year old on the .250 Savage and 87 grainers now. Low recoil, and enough pop.

Good luck and enjoy! You are doing a great thing.

BTW, welcome! Where is your part of the country and what you do?

Gentlemen, thank you.

I wanted rational responses from seasoned hunters had experience beyond shooting yearlings off the back 40 and that is certainly what I got.

It sounds like many of you would support use of the .222. I have been quite concerned about this, but given the support here, I will give it a bit more creedence. I believe that this rifle has a 1-12" twist so I think that I could use up to 60gr bullets but I may opt to use a 55gr Barnes TTSX as that would keep me at the legal minimum for Oklahoma and yet give me a bit more velocity than a 60gr bullet. Although a lead based bullet (i.e. partitions) at .222 velocities would not likely lose much weight upon impact, maybe the Barnes would assure a bit more penetration (unless it sheds a petal) with all things considered. I would hope that the tip on the TTSX would assure opening as such speeds.

The fit of the rifle to the shooter was emphasized here and I could not agree more. Although neither of these rifles will be "youth" size, I believe that either would be manageable for him off of a pair of sticks. Zane just does not have enough poop in his pants to heft a full size rifle quite yet. The CZ, though, may get the nod as it is just a bit shorter and lighter.

The instances where the 7-08 were mentioned, it was also stated that the rifle had been modified. Given that I am a taller person, if I were to trim it to his size, I may never be able to shoot it myself again. On the flip side, I have wanted to try my hand at stock making and I have a walnut tree that has the makings to produce three, maybe four, really nice stocks. I may try to craft a stock for this rifle that would fit the boy and then swap back and forth depending on who is shooting. Zane would love to help with this as well! I could have this done in time for the 2012 season.

Incidentally, I took a 3.5 year old bull elk from south central Colorado at 412 yards using a 160gr Barnes TSX. It entered just behind the passenger side shoulder and struck the off-side shoulder shattering it and then exiting, spinning the bull not quite 180*. I personally do not like to shoot over 300 yards, but this would be my best bull and I was lying across a downed pine shooting across an open scree field. Anyway, this was evidence enough that a 7-08 is sufficient for elk and likely moose, in my mind.

Hatari, it is always nice to be asked about who one is... going beyond a question or statement one posts. It reveals the character of those on this forum. Thank you.

I have worked as a flight RN/Paramedic for the last many years but have recently moved to my wife's old stomping grounds in order to purchase her grandparents 105 acre farm in SW Missouri. I went to work for St John's hospital in Joplin, MO which was promptly destroyed by a recent tornado. I have now been farmed out to a small sister hospital until our home hospital is rebuilt. Otherwise, I am trying my hand at writing, developing a pair of shooting stick that offers two points of support for the rifle while resting on a single foot, and spending as much time as possible with my family (my older daughter (6 y/o) is working toward becoming at "crawdad catching champion." It makes me smile.

Thank you for allowing me to invade. I very much appreciate the responses.

Respectfully,
MM

Welcome MM, and heart felt prayers to all of you in the Joplin area. Either of those rifles will be fine, though I would lean toward the 7mm with a civilized load - just a personal preference for a bigger hole.

When my son was eight, I went out and bought him a Ruger International in .308. Mistake. Perfect little bitch from the bench in both recoil and blast. Two weeks later I found him a Steyr in .243 and everything he has pointed at since has died. When around 18 I found him an identical rifle in 30-06 which he took to Africa with me a few years ago. You have a wonderful decade ahead of you with yoour son. Make the most of it, it will be over before you can believe it.

MM,

I spent a school year and many summers in Springfield, Mo. Nice part of the world. Still have relatives there.

Welcome MM

I have a 7x57 RSI that I love but it does buck and snort. My girls liked my reduced load 30/30. I would think your 222 and Ingwe and Fosteology give sage advice. I have never hunted a 22CF but many do.

I absolutely agree that the stock needs to be whittled down to fit. I do so with my rifles for myself and did so even with the 30/30 for my girls. I bought a junker rear stock, repaired it and cut it down, put on a recoil pad and increased the stock with spacers until the original fit again. A 110 gr 30 cal at 1600 kills deer very well. If you are prepared to cut the stock on your 7-08 and reload, then a comparable load will work on deer. I have never seen a wild pig, so have no idea about them.

I am a paramedic up in the great white north, good to see another medic with class and a clue.

Randy

All one-shot kills with 7X57 factory loads. Still, this is probably too much rifle/cartridge for an 8 year old. That counsel about well constructed .222 bullets is sound; although I would not include Barnes bullets in that group. Good luck. I started my daughters at that age and they both went with me to the RSA last May...

The 7mm-08 works well on our wild pigs up to 250 lbs. I have not had a chance to try it on anything larger.

You mentioned having a walnut tree that has 3-4 stocks in it. Takes a while for fresh wood to properly cure for a stock, long enough in fact that the boy might out grow the need.

Since a "temp" fix you can probably get either a Laminate blank or someone like WENIG's would probably fix you up with a "custom" blank that you could finish. Of plain grade wood not too expensive. Almost certainly a lot cheaper than harvesting a tree.