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Still waiting for anyone to dis-prove any Scripture within the Bible with hard core evidence. Hasn`t happen yet!
Feelings and opinions as it relates to disbelief, is not hard evidence.
[/quote] I enjoy the Noah's Arc story. (stress on story) The earth was covered with water?? Fresh or Salt? Where did Noah put the fish? Fresh or salt? Get it? The earth has always had the same amount of water in/on or above it. Where did the extra water come from to cover the earth and where did it go after the flood receded? Fresh or Salt water? A story to measure our lives with... A Story.
Last edited by northwestalaska; 08/31/11.
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I just don't see any reason for discussing religion on this, or any other forum.
Those that believe, believe. Those that don't, don't.
No amount of acrimonious or mean spirited discourse is going to change anyone's mind, no matter which direction they lean.
What I believe is pretty much my own damn business. I don't need validation or approval from anyone but God. Amen my Brother, Amen.
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Belief vs. Faith
If Jesus was at the edge of the Grand Canyon proclaiming be could cross pushing a wheelbarrow supported solely by a �� cable stretched across the Grand Canyon, many of us would believe He could do it, after all, He is the son of God, and perfect and capable of anything.
You would display faith by getting in the wheelbarrow.
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I'd feel better about that scenario if Jesus said he could cross with a loaded wheelbarrow.
George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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I'd feel better about that scenario if Jesus said he could cross with a loaded wheelbarrow.
George Why?
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I'd feel better about that scenario if Jesus said he could cross with a loaded wheelbarrow.
George Why? It was a joke, I guess I should have used a smiley thing.  All I'm saying is that if the Son of God says he can push a wheelbarrow across, without mentioning a load....who am I to jump in and push his limits. George
�Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.�
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The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. 1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. before the big bang 3Then God said, �Let there be light�; and there was light. (big bang) 4God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. 6Then God said, �Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.� 7God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. 8God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. (atmosphere formed) 9Then God said, �Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear�; and it was so. 10God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11Then God said, �Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them�; and it was so. (plant life) 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13There was evening and there was morning, a third day. 14Then God said, �Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth�; and it was so. 16God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. 20Then God said, �Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.� 21God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them, saying, �Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.� 23There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24Then God said, �Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind�; and it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26Then God said, �Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.� 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, �Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.� 29Then God said, �Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food�; and it was so. 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. (mankind formed last)Much of this matches theoretical physics (such as the emptiness prior to the Big Bang). Much of it matches known biology. "Conflict" with "known" facts is a tough stretch since we have no witnessed to interview. BMT
"The Church can and should help modern society by tirelessly insisting that the work of women in the home be recognized and respected by all in its irreplaceable value." Apostolic Exhortation On The Family, Pope John Paul II
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And on the 8th day he created the Huskers!
Story.... Plain and simple
Adam and Eve is another nice story.
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It is amazing that the ones who do not believe in God spend more time and effort trying to disprove Him than the believers do in giving reasons why they accept Him.
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I am at a complete loss how people can believe that we evolved from rock slime, and are a cosmic accident when one can just walk outside and see a very small portion of the incredibly intricate splendor of nature. Then consider how fascinatingly well every part of nature fits in its niche�no, we�re not an cosmic accident and the Bible is not a collection of fictional stories.
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I look at it this way. Prophecy is something meant for a future time. Peoples experiences and interpretations change over time.
So, lets say John on Patomos saw the end times as a literal vision. Could he say what he saw outside his own experiences. Could he describe a helicopter as a manned aircraft, or would he see it as a locust. Would he see a nuclear detonation as what it is, or would he describe it as a falling star.
Then if the mechanics were given to him, how would people over the ages intemperate what he said since it is completely outside their reference.
So what he said centuries ago we are just now being able to understand.
The older I become the more I am convinced that the voice of honor in a man's heart is the voice of GOD.
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This discussion would be a study that would take years.The best thing would be to study the complete history of what we call scripture.My only warning is that it will take you the rest of your life.You will end up with many very different Bibles.You will get very confused often.You will stop making a lot of blanket statements.Our understanding is limited.We have precious little information to go by.
Ideas are far more powerful than guns, We dont let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas. "Joseph Stalin"
He who has braved youths dizzy heat dreads not the frost of age.
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Here is the bottom line on the truth of the scripture. It is either complete, perfect truth, applicable for all times, or it is all a lie. Scripture is a story handed down over the generations to give man something to measure his life with. Key word is a story. .............And IF those stories happened to be true events? Still waiting for anyone to dis-prove any Scripture within the Bible with hard core evidence. Hasn`t happen yet! Feelings and opinions as it relates to disbelief, is not hard evidence. Are you kidding me? The approximately 6000 year old earth found in the Bible and the order of creation (which is different in Genesis VS 1 & 2 interesting enough - both can't be right) have been absolutely, positively, and totally dis-proven with a huge amount of scientific data in multiple fields of scholarship. The fossil record totally disproves the Biblical account. Not that this will change the minds of those who wish to willfully dismiss virtually all scientific consensus so they can believe what was written. The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before light and stars, birds and whales before reptiles and insects, and flowering plants before any animals. The order of events known from science is closer to being the opposite. If you are doubtful, please re-read Genesis 1:1-2:3 ...........Ok! Who invented the very science which man studies? So while science may appear to be very conflictive with the Genesis accounts, is it really? Remember that while carbon 14 dating is the normal way of testing for age on how old materials are, is it possible that the earth is much younger than what the man made method of carbon 14 dating shows? I understand why the Bible conflicts with science and the problems with reconciliation. Nevertheless, Biblical Scripture regardless of how it is interpreted, cannot be disproved. One can always argue, but one cannot disprove the Bible. Besides, how old the earth is, how old the universe is etc, is not the determining factor for the forgiveness of sin or personal salvation. Maybe it is not in God`s plan for man to reconcile science with Genesis.
28 Nosler,,,,300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger
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Campfire 'Bwana
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God had to have a way of letting those who leaned on their own understanding to be led astray.
The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.
If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
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No conflict there.Read the first two sentences of Genesis.Now study the word we translate "was" is this correct.How about "became"does this fit better.
Ideas are far more powerful than guns, We dont let our people have guns. Why should we let them have ideas. "Joseph Stalin"
He who has braved youths dizzy heat dreads not the frost of age.
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jdm953,
So the we could say Adam and Eve "became" naked? It does not work when you try to add to God's Word. Trying to accomodate long ages with the Scripture does not work.
Science is what we know, not what we speculate about. There is nothing in science that conflicts with Scripture. There is a lot of conjecture, mascarading as science, which some scientists try to push on the public as science. The problem the conjecturers have is there are thousands of Ph.D. level scientists who show with science the problems with an old universe and earth. With an electrom mass spetrometer carbon 14 has been found in ALL samples of coal, ALL samples of fosils and ALL diamonds. One could argue contamination with the first two, but contaminating a diamond is imposible.
One of the lecturers I listened to, a Ph.D in chemistry, shows how oil cannot take a long time make. If there is not enough preasure and heat it wont start the chain reaction. If there is enough it happens fast. Try to explain the geodatic presure of oil with a millions of years old deposit. It is not going to happen. The presure would have disipated many thousands of years ago.
I wrote an essay showing lots of this type of info. It is about twenty pages long. If anyone wants to read it I will send it to them in a private message.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
Everyday Hunter
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The Genesis 1 creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. 1In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2The earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the waters. before the big bang 3Then God said, �Let there be light�; and there was light. (big bang) 4God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day. 6Then God said, �Let there be an expanse in the midst of the waters, and let it separate the waters from the waters.� 7God made the expanse, and separated the waters which were below the expanse from the waters which were above the expanse; and it was so. 8God called the expanse heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, a second day. (atmosphere formed) 9Then God said, �Let the waters below the heavens be gathered into one place, and let the dry land appear�; and it was so. 10God called the dry land earth, and the gathering of the waters He called seas; and God saw that it was good. 11Then God said, �Let the earth sprout vegetation, plants yielding seed, and fruit trees on the earth bearing fruit after their kind with seed in them�; and it was so. (plant life) 12The earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after their kind, and trees bearing fruit with seed in them, after their kind; and God saw that it was good. 13There was evening and there was morning, a third day. 14Then God said, �Let there be lights in the expanse of the heavens to separate the day from the night, and let them be for signs and for seasons and for days and years; 15and let them be for lights in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth�; and it was so. 16God made the two great lights, the greater light to govern the day, and the lesser light to govern the night; He made the stars also. 17God placed them in the expanse of the heavens to give light on the earth, 18and to govern the day and the night, and to separate the light from the darkness; and God saw that it was good. 19There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day. 20Then God said, �Let the waters teem with swarms of living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth in the open expanse of the heavens.� 21God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 22God blessed them, saying, �Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let birds multiply on the earth.� 23There was evening and there was morning, a fifth day. 24Then God said, �Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind: cattle and creeping things and beasts of the earth after their kind�; and it was so. 25God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind, and everything that creeps on the ground after its kind; and God saw that it was good. 26Then God said, �Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.� 27God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them. 28God blessed them; and God said to them, �Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.� 29Then God said, �Behold, I have given you every plant yielding seed that is on the surface of all the earth, and every tree which has fruit yielding seed; it shall be food for you; 30and to every beast of the earth and to every bird of the sky and to every thing that moves on the earth which has life, I have given every green plant for food�; and it was so. 31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good. And there was evening and there was morning, the sixth day. (mankind formed last)Much of this matches theoretical physics (such as the emptiness prior to the Big Bang). Much of it matches known biology. "Conflict" with "known" facts is a tough stretch since we have no witnessed to interview. BMT kinda what i was getting at in an earlier post, if yah look as the Bible as inspired by god and not the literal word from god as a whole....with only a lil literary license it does not ignore science.....only things that MAY ignore science are the miracles told in the Bible and quite frankly they just dont match current known science...or in some cases do but cant figure out how the ancients woulda done them without modern technology.....
A serious student of the "Armchair Safari" always looking for Africa/Asia hunting books
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Coupla things if you don't mind a skeptic chiming in again. One - this set of arguments has made its way on to the slippery slope that I mentioned earlier. It is as if this set of details has been scripted, the responses on both sides are predictable and commonplace - no new ground to be had in a very old argument. About the RC church being infallible as mentioned earlier. Not true....the "church" has never claimed infalliblity. The notion comes from church doctrine regarding the Pope. It is the Catholic belief that the Pope is infallible when speaking "ex cathedra" on matters of faith and morals. He ain't considered infallible about anything else. About timelines: and up to the Church of England, which predates the Protestant Revolution. I have always dated the beginning of the Protestant Revolution with the publication of Martin Luther's 95 (or 99) theses at the University of Wittenberg in 1518. Henry the VIII established the Church of England with his Act of Supremacy in 1534. So...I do not see the "predate" idea as correct, unless there is a date later than Luther's challenge to doctrine. About belief and lack of.....one cannot disprove the existence of God. Cannot. But....one cannot prove it either. That's what I mentioned before when I wrote that normal means will not work in the argument - because faith is the basis. What I have said to others in discussions such as this is "Look at what you are asking me to believe." List the qualities of God - difficult for me to accept. That's what I meant when I wrote that belief doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. It does, however, make a great deal of sense to the many devout folk posting in this thread. I am at a complete loss how people can believe that we evolved from rock slime, and are a cosmic accident when one can just walk outside and see a very small portion of the incredibly intricate splendor of nature. Then consider how fascinatingly well every part of nature fits in its niche�no, we�re not an cosmic accident and the Bible is not a collection of fictional stories. Language is important. Using the "rock slime" image introduces very negative connotations in to the idea. (Who wants to be associated with slime?). The idea is that we evolved from a single cell somewhere in the primordial sea. That the Universe is incredibly intricate is very true and that intricacy could just as well be used to support the accident of nature viewpoint. With all those billions upon billions of stars and planets and whatever else....all those possiblities. If you have a vast number of experiments, it is likely that sooner or later there will be a success. And things do fit together fascinatingly well - even Chaos theory - is that fit proof of an all powerful, all knowing, omnipresent mind? Or do we see what helps us believe? Pete
Last edited by PeteD; 08/31/11.
To be on the wire is life. The rest is waiting.
Karl Wallenda
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I can't say that we have the same background but we sure do read the same history books..... I think.
Only game in town in Western and Northern Europe after the Great Schism and up to the Church of England, which predates the Protestant Revolution. Now, THAT I would agree with....
Still, gotta love guys like Gutenberg...... I tend to forget the Church of England but they certainly rebelled so they would have to be considered the first "protestant" church. "The religious settlement that eventually emerged in the reign of Elizabeth I gave the Church of England the distinctive identity that it has retained to this day. It resulted in a Church that consciously retained a large amount of continuity with the Church of the Patristic and Medieval periods in terms of its use of the catholic creeds, its pattern of ministry, its buildings and aspects of its liturgy, but which also embodied Protestant insights in its theology and in the overall shape of its liturgical practice. The way that this is often expressed is by saying that the Church of England is both 'catholic and reformed.'" http://www.churchofengland.org/about-us/history.aspxhttp://www.churchofengland.org/about-us/history.aspxhttp://www.churchofengland.org/about-us/history.aspx
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
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Here is the bottom line on the truth of the scripture. It is either complete, perfect truth, applicable for all times, or it is all a lie. Scripture is a story handed down over the generations to give man something to measure his life with. Key word is a story. .............And IF those stories happened to be true events? Still waiting for anyone to dis-prove any Scripture within the Bible with hard core evidence. Hasn`t happen yet! Feelings and opinions as it relates to disbelief, is not hard evidence. Why waste the time to give you sources it wouldn't do any good.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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