Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Moly or not ???

I'n thinking of shooting moly-coated bullets in my Model 7 .223 and was curious about how many of you shoot moly and what your experiences with it have been.

Moly rules.
The crux is the cleaning routine. The BR guys say Kroil and JB Paste, but that did not work for me.
Mine, after barrel seasoning, is to shoot until the accuracy starts to go funny (usually about 50 to 100 shots), then use a ONE CALIBER OVER brush (i.e. 243 for 223, 257 for 6mm) with a good splash of Hoppes Number Nine regular on it.
About ten strokes (the rod will be black and disgusting, so use a nice absorbent paper towel), then run three snug patches through, use the second to soak up any leakage around your bore guide, then blaze away some more.
I would say about every 500 to 750 rounds I need to clean for real, as in copper remover and other toxic potions soaking overnight, and then re-season with moly spray buffed into the stripped barrel, but that beats the tar out of all that regular-type gun cleaning.
I will say that the apparent benefit of moly is not as great the bigger the bore. I don't know why, but I think it has to do with powder gook deposition.
One warning. Do NOT let your moly-coated chromoly barrel sit in a warm, damp spot. It will fuzz up so fast you won't believe it. If you are not going to shoot in a couple days, run some Number 9 on a patch and get the bore coated. Then run a dry patch through when it's time to shoot.

I personally do not care for moly and see no real advantage in its use as stated in the above post there are problems associated with the use of moly and in my opion they out wiegh the gain

Moly does work - IF . . . .
I have several rifles that I use moly bullets in, and several that won't shoot a molyed bullet at all. My (several) 223's like moly and some of my larger bore like it as well. 338, 375, 416 calibers seem to do well with the moly. The trick is in the cleaning. I use Ed's Red bore cleaner with Kroil added to it. Soak & clean (hot) at the range or in the field and do a super cleaning job once you get back to home base. There is something about the moly. It seems to leave a layer of moly in the bore with every shot, but very little to no copper. The moly is a bit harder to get out than burnt powder, hence the soaking while hot at the range or while out shooting prarie rats. I have a couple of silacone tapered plugs that I insert into the chamber and then fill the barrel with the Ed's Red, then plug the muzzle and set the rifle muzzle down (leakage) and remove the chamber plug. Let it sit for a few minutes and then clean as normal. I have gone well over a hundred rounds through a hot 223 improved before accuracy degrades to the point of cleaning. Not so with a non-molyed setup. Pressure seems to drop off somewhat with the more slick bullet, so attention to handloading is necessary. Don't ever subsitute a non molyed bullet in a moly bullet load. A "blue pill" is the result.

I was never interested in moly until I saw the data on the 180 gr blue Barnes out of the '06. Speedy!

Anyone have any experience with the 180 gr blue bullet in the 30-06? Is there much blue sky in the data for the blue bullet?

DB,
I agree with this guy.
http://www.riflebarrels.com/articles/barrel_making/barrel_fouling.htm
dave <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Moly can work wonders for accuracy in some rifles, also helps a little with pressure. It apparently reduces deformation of the bullet during engraving into the rifling, and also tends to keep peak pressure down.

The whole question: Is it worth it? One of the original reasons moly was supposed to be so great was that it supposedly CUT DOWN on the need to clean bores, as the moly kept metal-fouling to a minimum. But it turned out the moly created its own fouling problems.

Moly tends to build up in bores, especially throats. It has been proven (by a major bullet firm that fired 15,000 rounds of molyed bullets) that such build-up creates pressure spikes that normally peak about every 50 rounds. Then a few more rounds blow the moly out and everything turns more normal.

I have seen this myself when shooting molyed bullets. During the build-up accuracy usually goes to hell as well. This is the main reason many moly users clean bores every 50 rounds or so.

I eventually gave up on the stuff, because with today's better powders both powder and metal-fouling are so minimal that many bores (even factory) can shoot hundreds of rounds without cleaning. Why switch to moly-coated bullets (and the attendant need to clean bores) when you can shoot hundreds of standard bullets without cleaning at all?

THE BLUE STUFF ON BARNES XLC BULLETS IS NOT MOLY. Instead it is more closely related to Teflon. While it can build up in the throat (and in seating dies) a simple pass with a brass bore-brush will knock it out--unlike moly, which many people have found extremely difficult, if not impossible, to totally remove from a bore.

MD

Moly has no useful purpose. About the only good effect documented by experiment is that some of the powder energy is used to vaporize the moly coating lining the barrel, instead of being used to accelerate the bullet. The moly vapor then re-condenses on the barrel.

This lowers pressure AND lowers velocity. You can do the same thing just by cutting the powder charge.

Moly has no known effect on accuracy, except that, after cleaning the rifle, a number of shots are needed to reestablish the layer in the barrel. Until this happens, some rifles do not return to zero.

Moly has no effect on barrel life due to "reduced friction." The most friction occurs at the muzzle, where velocity is highest. Barrels wear out at the throat, where pressure and temperature are highest.

Moly has no effect on bullet deformation. If you swage a .308 bullet through an irregular cross-sectioned hole measuring from .300 to .308 you will get deformation--with or without moly.

As for cleaning, I clean my .223 (which never uses moly bullets but has a stainless hand-lapped barrel) with exactly four patches after every match. A match is 44, 50, 75, or 88 rounds. Two with Butch's, one dry, one with Hoppe's #9. After every 800 shots, I clean it with JB paste. I do not need to clean out the Hoppe's #9 to make the first shot land on zero.

The moly issue is one of the many gems screaming for a serious research effort. Even the gun and barrel makers don't have the funds to do a proper study on even a few of our rather serious questions. Presently one can surf up any number of Pro or Con opinions. I've gone to moly in units that exceed 3,500 fps. Before treatment they were fouling quickly and significantly. By significant, I mean accuracy began to suffer in as little as 6 to 10 rounds. Fouling appears to be a non issue now. I use moly bore prep (which is simply some moly in oil). Run a mollied patch through the bore a few times. I take a clean patch out the muzzle, apply the bore prep, and bring the patch toward the chamber with a few trips back and forth. I would suggest one not pull the patch through the chamber but stop in the throat. Then run a clean patch from chamber to muzzle. Some say we should not slick up the chamber, and that makes a little sense to me. Shooting a moly coating into the bore is probably ineffective as one will lay down copper as the moly comes off the first few pills in their early run down the tube. The bore may eventually be covered, but probably on top of a good copper coating. Unlike others, I've had little trouble removing moly. A little conventional cleaning, some JB paste, and a little more cleaning get me to a chrome bright bore in 5 or 6 minutes. Those experiencing trouble may have had a mixture of moly and copper to deal with. I too experienced a slight velocity loss when I went to moly, probably due to the slicker barrel allowing bullet passage with less pressure. I got it back with a little more powder. As to the pressure spike observations, I do not have the instruments needed to examine that one. The bottom line.... I'd say try it, and if you don't like the results, then clean it out and get on with life.

I'd be willing to do the research if one would toss about 0.5 to 0.75 million my way. 1Minute <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

1minute--

You might be surprised at how much moly remains in your mirror bright bore after taking a look at it through a bore-scope.

The pressure spikes are well documented by extensive testing from a major bullet company.

MD

I"ve been using moly in my match rifles for a number of years. I'll just say that I've shot WAY more than 15K rounds of moly. And burned out a number of barrels along the way. It was not unusual to go through 20K rounds each year. I'm shooting 223 in the AR.

Remember these are my personal thoughts but from actual firing, not from listening to anyone elses ideas or experiences.

Moly does not make much if any difference in barrel life or accuracy. IE neither worse or better. Although my data is only from appx 8 barrels shot out(read that to be a minimum of 5-8K rounds on each barrel)

Moly does wonders when dealing on the high end of pressures. Yes it does require a bit more powder but it has allowed me to do things with 90 grain bullets that I cannot do with non moly bullets.

Accuracy life IE how many rounds fired. I can go shoot a match and easily win with a clean barrel. I can also do the same with 500 rounds without cleaning. Scores will be the same.

Cleaning- nothing out of the ordinary IE each person has different methods for their rifles. Mine work for moly and are no less or more labor intensive than any others.

As to CARBON build up, its been seen with both moly and non moly rifles. Its a beast and has to be dealt with. But if you never allow it to get ahead of you life will be fine.

Moly does allow me to shoot, then clean and the first round is dead on. Something that NEVER happened with bare bullets.

I cannot comment on pressure spikes-- what I can say is that I can shoot through a match and never see a degradation in accuracy. Even if its a few matches in a row.

For those wondering, I have used Douglas(never again), Lilja, Pac Nor, Blackstar(keeps shooting and shooting......) and Krieger barrels. I don't think those are considered rough or slouch barrels. My pocketbook agrees.

I shoot my rifles, then put them in the gun room with a dehumidifier and shoot them again in the middle of the week or next weekend. Have not looked in the bore. But I never try to fix something unless its broken. If the AR continues to shoot .5 moa out to 600 yards then why wonder what the barrel looks like? It must still be fine. Especially when barrel life remains the same. Plus its been discovered that there is no need for a perfectly clean barrel anyway
(should I add that I'm not shooting BR but I"m probably way more picky on accuracy than most HP shooters are)

IF I could net the speed I need with the big bullets in the 223 with accuracy, I'd probably get away from moly as I don't have the excess time in life right now to shoot, much less try to moly 10-20K bullets a year. And sure can't afford to buy them coated.

Final thought is an aside thought-- I used to treat my barrels with a teflon product. Kept the fouling down but produced slow shots that were low on target now and then. I'm not overly keen on the use of that product as a result. And IIRC our troops were on the bad end of a bit of extreme LR artillery fire that had teflon treated bores. Result was rounds falling short which was not a good result.

No flames intended here, just wanted to pass along my results of actual firing over the years.

Respects, Jeff