Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Remington Extractors

There is ZERO correlation between snipers and Dangerous Game hunting. Zero. But why continue to flog the messenger? did you read the article I posted?

Vlaid points you make but I think a bit of a broad-brushed assessment. The issue with Weatherbys was the hot loads and if I remember correctly, some of the initial German made ones had a safety problem (you know almost like the one Remington's been sued over a bunch of times). The author whilst mentioning issues with indeed all rifles (I didnt see any A bolts in there?) he specifically singled out Remingtons. And yes a LOT of PHs are still living in the past when it comes to bullet and velocity and that is because they still judge everything by old cup and core bullets that broke up and failed to penetrate, that is why the over reliance on solids.

That is changing. Today, you'd be hard pressed to find a PH recommending solids for anything except elephant, rhino and hippo on land.

No game is dangerous if shot properly, and that's more likely to happen with a Remington.

Bullsh-t X 2 on that one Swampy.

Gunner

I'd say that both a DG rifle and a Sniper's rifle need to be accurate and reliable. They at least have those two attributes in common

you don't think lives may be saved or lost depending on the function of a sniper's rifle? you don't think they demand 100% out of their weapons? you don't think they cycle round in as soon as they make a shot?

the one difference is the mil/LEO boys undoubtedly take better care of their guns and they don't need to impress the masses.

your rabid attacks on the 700 are almost as laughable as Swampy's defense of them. sure, i have Mausers, M70s, Rugers, a Springfield, ect.. but i'll be leaving in the morning for a solo backpack hunt in an area lousy with griz and i'll be carrying a M700, despite the third world wisdom.

rabid? you mean like your defense of same comparing apples and oranges? Sniping and DG hunting are two entirely different issues and if you can't see the differences, well we have a fundamental difference of opinion. But please do direct me towards a "rabid" post, unless you consider a link to an article rabid, oh wait apparently you do, given the "third world wisdom" comment. I have no issues with PFs, none, but the facts on the flimsy construct of 700 extractors is there. Good luck on your hunt/

Bwalker�

Now that you have pointed out that Mr. Heath not only trashed the 700, but all things American, I�ll pass on an �evaluation� of Mr. Heath.

I have read this article before and I recall some print commentary on it by someone who knows Mr. Heath. In said commentary, he is described as being notoriously anti-American, and I think I remember not just in his gun views. Unfortunately, I do not recall the name of the commentator but he called bias/prejudice on Mr. Heath. That seems reasonable to me, especially when the tone was set at opening with the Greener quote:

"In no country are better sportsmen to be found than in the United States of America, nor does any country posses keener buyers or better men of business, yet in no country is so much worthless rubbish of the (mass production) gun-factories offered for sale. The Boers are a race of sportsmen, but it is of no use to offer them rubbish at any price, and the author can hardly believe that the astute American will sacrifice everything to cheapness". That fortnight in the Zambezi valley showed that not a lot has changed in the last 90 years except that nasty rather than purely cheap describes most of America's offerings in the dangerous rifle field.�

I pose the question - how do the alleged results in this screed square with the reports read in these pages and others, of Americans venturing forth to the Dark Continent carrying their cheap American DG guns, 700�s included?

I've met Mr Heath a couple of times and if he was {sic} notoriously anti-American, he did not appear that way to me. I'll tell you what he is not ashamed of showing his outward disdain for our Foreign Policy regarding the former Rhodesia and much of his vitriol is aimed at of course Jimmy Carter and his UN ambassador Andrew Young. His article was indeed very critical of mass produced rifles and he cautions at venturing forth in DG country with an untested rifle and that is his intent. Still, unless he is just lying, the issue of the 700 extractor is common knowledge is it not?

Sure there are differing opinions but it is hard to argue against scientific testing from a respected source. The fact he may get paid didn't seem to lesson the quality of his study in my book. Regardless of opinion your post is a great addition to this thread.

Ross Seyfried used a lightweight M-700 in 416 toward the end of his PH career in Africa without a problem
Sam action that most Military Sniper rifles are based on, and they hunt the most "dangerous game in the world

The problem is"mass produced" rifles are not always in perfect spec and therefore do not perform optimally.

exactly

jorge1:

Your experience certainly opens the possibility that Mr. Heath harbors some anti-American sentiment but then he may have just been making the correct assessment of Jimmah Cahtah and the UN.

I do wish I could recall the author of the Heath critique but it just won�t come to me. If I could, you�d probably know the name. Shoot�.., you might even know the guy.

As to the Remington extractor and common knowledge, It�s obvious that different actions have different strengths and weaknesses. However my subjective impression is that the most common knock on the Remington is the jam that results from short-stroking, not broken extractors. Accusations of this �problem� are usually made of course, while ignoring the FUBAR that can result from short-stroking other actions.

I digress a bit here from the original 700 extractor topic, but to Mr. Heath�s assertion - conventional wisdom (common knowledge?) has it that the bolt rifle (CRF action?) is popular in Africa because of its design features and its effectiveness. The bolt rifle became popular in Africa because it was cheap!

Bottom line is give me a Remington to hunt ANYTHING and I'd do it without skipping a beat. I prefer other brands based on form, fit & function but that's just me. Check out my latest toy on the African thread

Well........yeah....you might say "cheaper"..... than a double, which is true of course....Let's just say the bolt was more "economical and affordable" by earlier settlers.

But it also clearly worked well, cause if it didn't, there'd have been a lot of Boers knocked flatter than road kill, I suspect.

BobinNH...

You are correct on all points. I wondered if I'd get called on saying cheap but I just had to take the shot.

And now.... Back to lurking!!!

All I know is I have fired several thousand rounds thru various 700's over the years with out a hitch. I have seen one failure to extract in the field in my years fooling around with guns and that was with a sporterized mauser that jumped the rim.It belonged to an acquaintance that was on a bear hunt in Canada. Of course he had no cleaning rod with him. It was bit-- getting the case out after that but I finally managed to get him back into service. Do I condemn all claw extractors? No but I am not as enamored of them as most as I find CRF to be more trouble than they are worth and a remedy for a problem I don't have and probably will never see. I have a couple but I don't chase sporting rifles because they are CRF. A 700 extractor is OK by me.

I have had 4 extractors fail. The first one was a Husqvarna. The whole front portion of the extractor broke off (the part that engages the case rim). This actually happened twice with the same rifle. It is a CFR Mauser type extractor. Oh no, a CFR failed, not once, but twice!~

The second one was a late model 70 in stainless steel .338 Win mag. The load was a bit robust (not my load) and the extractor was bent out away from the case rim on firing. On model 70's if the extractor groove is expanded, due to an overload, the extractor is pushed out of the extractor groove. Not a good design, since there is nothing holding the extractor in the extractor groove, but the "spring" of the long extractor. At least in a Mauser, the front part of the extractor is held by a machined groove. The model 70 extractor is a weak piece of flimsy steel, in my opinion.

On a 700, this could not have happened and the brass case around the rim would flow tightly around the extractor. The case would come out...period.

The fourth experience was again, a model 70 in .30-06. Trophy bull moose standing in front of me and the bolt won't open after the first shot. The extractor had bound up and wouldn't let go. This was not a hot load, but a basic factory load. After a bunch of fiddling around, the spent case came out and the bull was dead. I had the silly model 70 extractor bind up several more times and fail to extract. Several smiths looked at it and couldn't figure it out. So much for the hype on model 70's and it went down the road. It did feed nice though and I killed a lot of critters with it. I just didn't trust it.

I have had three overloaded rounds in model 700's. The bolts were frozen closed and nothing short of beating on them with a 2x4 would free them, which worked. I actually tore off the whole bolt nose trying to get the spent/melted case out from under the extractor on the .22-250. The extractor held and I had Remington replace the bolt at my expense.

I had two other overloads in the same .22-250, both times, the case rim was completely ripped off. Remington extractors are extremely stout and durable. I had a fly die in my powder measure and it threw 4 hot loads, which I discovered after pulling and measuring 200 loaded rounds.

I hear all the hype about Model 70's and CRF's in Africa, but in reality, are they any better???? Me thinks not. Model 700's feed upside down, sideways, fast slow, doesn't matter. Both can be short stroked and jammed. To say one is better than another is strictly opinion, just like Ford and Chevy. I will take a Toyota 10-1 any day:D Flinch

Perfect example of why I don't fire other peoples' handloads.

Flinch, how does a dead fly in your powder measure make it throw hot loads? I would have thought the space occupied by the fly would cause it to throw lighter loads.

I don't know the how, but I know it can happen. I suspect it can cause powder to hang-up/build up, and then fall arbitrarily. I also know a fly in a case can cause trouble with visual inspections of charged cases. Empty cases in loading blocks and open powder measures can be bad juju.