Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters steel shot, full chokes and bridging

i know this subject has been beaten to death numerous times, but i'm gonna ask anyways. i have a '69 vintage Auto 5 Magnum 20 ga. I would like to use it for a duck hunt or two this fall. it is of course a full choke. i know steel shot and a full choke are most often a harmful combination. however, every case i know of that resulted in bulged or blown barrels involved B or bigger sized shot. years ago i used a lot of #4 steel in an old full choked Stevens 820b, never causing any damage, with the understanding that #4 is too small to bridge when it passes through a full choke, but i'd be rolling the dice using anything larger. now in theory should that not also apply to my A5? i'm well aware that Browning says no steel shot in any Belgian gun, and have heard to other side of guys who've gotten away with it for years. Kent Tungsten Matrix is the only shell of its kind available locally but at $28 for 10 isn't really a viable option. and i do have other steel safe guns, but i shoot my best with this old 20.

I wouldn't do it. Unless you have a source for a new barrel. I think it will buldge the barrel, not from experience, however. Just what I've read.

I think your pattern will suffer. I was told that you should drop down with steel. Use a Mod. choke for a full. Imp for a mod choke. Hope I explained that well enough.

Hi Kevin,

You will kill the barrel, no doubt about it. You can look down the barrel of F/C A-5's and see real quick if they have had steel run thru them.

If you ever decide to sell the gun, any dealer with a brain will be able to tell. You'll get a lot less as a result.

New A-5 Barrels ain't cheap either. If it was a modified Belgium I would say rock on, but it ain't.

My advice is to buy another barrel or use another gun. Even bismuth in a F/C A-5 will eat it up.

Best,

JM

I at one time had a 69 vintage 3" twenty A-5 with a full choke. It shot so tight a pattern you would have thought the pellets were glued together. Best loads for it were pre plastic wads vintage with no larger than #4 lead for waterfowl. A-5's all had choking that was pretty tight for what they were marked.Go buy a couple of 10 rd Kent Tungsten Matrix for it,they work real good in my Magnum Superposed. Or use regular shells with 4 lead the next time. You get caught, pay the fine, no point in ruining a nice shotgun and then you will be convinced that Kent Tungsten Matrix is expensive but cheaper than lead( work as good or better too) Shells still the cheapest part of the hunt. You asked and I told you. The whole non-toxic mandate for waterfowl is just a one size fits all answer by people who hate lead. You could also go online to one of the gun auction sites and see if you can find a Jap made A-5 in Mag 20 with invector choke tubes to be used as your mainstay shooter.In my Citori 20 3" steel loads are never run thru choke tubes tighter than the skeet and imp cyl marked ones out to 35 yds where 20 steel is done anyway.Not enuf 3's and 2's in the 20 loads to give you the pattern density you need for sure kills past 35 yds. Magnum Man

Price it this way. What is an 870 worth? Buy a used one for a few bucks.
Shoot the cheep steel in that for the high volume part. Shoot the fancy nontoxic in the A-5. Limit the number to those expensive ones that you shoot and hunt the rest with the pump gun and cheap steel.
Decide which ducks and geese feel better and continue according to what you find.

Most times I would say shoot it with the steel, but not a full choke 20.

Yeah, its been the general consensus that even with small shot its just not worth it. I actually did buy an old 12x3" wingmaster and ream it out so I wouldn't risk the 20. Guess I'll suck it up get two boxes of Kent TM and make sure the 870's in the boat as well

I haven't had enough shots through it to tell ... but the past 2 seasons here I've run steel #2s through a Baikal SxS with Mod/Full choke. No damage what so ever.

Steel shot wadding has moved a long way since its inception.

Another thought, why not relieve the choke?
Cheers...
Con

Hi Con,

A lot of the damage that occurs on Belgium A-5's from shooting steel occurs just pass the forcing cone.

Best,

JM

Just handload nice shot and rock on.

Handloading shotshells is a piece of cake. You could go the cheap route and buy a Lee Load All for 20ga or just roll crimp them with a drill or drill press.

BPI has everything you need.

John, I don't know how steel shot can cause forcing cone issues or barrel damage. The shot is buffered by a nice nylon or plastic full length wad which is SMALLER than the forcing cone and internal barrel dimensions. The shot NEVER touches the barrel in any way. I see this "steel damage" parroted around the internet with no evidence of any damage that can be decisively linked to steel shot. The only "damage" I have seen is shooting shotguns with dirty/muddy shells, mud in the barrel or due to total neglect/rust.

When barrel damage does happen, it is near the end of the tube, where the compact steel shot is suddenly constricted and forced through a smaller hole/choke. I'm not calling you a liar or anything of the sort. I have just never seen any damage to ANY shotgun in any way, Browning Belgian or any other brand. I shoot a lot of Brownings in doubles, auto 5's and pumps. Steel shot affects them in NO way at all (I shoot two Belgians). In full chokes, I haven't shot larger than #2 shot. In the modified chokes, I shoot everything. No issues and no damage in ANY way.

I had a couple of Browning full chokes reamed out to modified and rocked on. No issues and a $50 fix. Flinch

Then relieve the forcing cones. Friend of mine did that to the forcing cones plus opened the chokes a tad on a vintage Browning U/O so it could keep shooting. We have non-toxic shot mandated for ducks only in Australia, not upland birds by the way.

My thoughts on steel has always been in older guns try and avoid it, but if mandated then #4 (or smaller) and US loads because you guys set up steel predominantly to shoot in all guns. That's not like the Europeans that tackled the issue in the opposite way and released their 'High performance' steel for guns specifically with the Fleur de Lys proof mark and made for 'high performance' steel's higher pressures.

That's how I understand it anyway, but I could be wrong.
Cheers...
Con

Explain bridging please. I don't understand.

It�s ESPECIALLY not worth it when you consider how friggin lousy steel shot is. There are lots of alternatives out there that will work in your A5 barrel just fine and pattern like lead, kill like lead or better. Problem is, none of them are cheap. But� ALL of them are WAY cheaper than a new barrel.

I suppose its when the shot charge finds itself in the position of not being able to 'give a little' and re-position itself enough to go through the forcing cones or chokes, and instead acts as a solid mass. Mind you ... the wads allow this to occur. I suppose that's what was thought to cause bulging in some guns (never seen it myself) early on. My greatest concern however was 'barrel scouring' where the wad failed through the choke and steel pellets were scrubbing the bore. Hence for 2 years I've been shooting steel #2s through a Baikal's Mod/Full chokes ... no damage either ... but boy it hammers ducks when I get the leads worked out properly.

A gentleman I correspond with on an Australian forum though has never seen it and he tested steel to the n-th degree when it first came out ... to the point of changing to steel for all his shooting for a good 12 months to see what it could and couldn't do. Now ... the steel loads are just so much better its not funny, but the old rules certainly dont apply other than pattern your gun and see what's really happening rather than going on faith.

Shotguns are funny things ... there have been so many variations in what is considered 'correct' bore/choke dimensions for say 12guages that its really hard to be pedantic about anything. Now ... we shoot 12 guage loads through 10guage barrel dimensions of old, and charge weights never dreamt of in the past. I'll stick to rifles ... so much easier!
Cheers...
Con

It sounds like you're not going to shoot a flat of shells through it in a season of duck hunting, so just pay the tariff on a box or two of non-steel non-tox like Nice Shot or Bismuth and be done with it. You'll get better patterns (if sticking with the full choke barrel) than with steel, any of them will kill better than steel outside of 25 yards if shot size is similar, and you won't have any lingering doubts as to whether or not you're injuring your barrel.

Don't do it, I had an Auto 5 in 12 ga. Three Inch with a full choke. I bought the gun it was cherry I didn't shoot steel in it at all, just either lead or Bismuth. I didn't do much duck hunting with it, I had an 870 for that. I sold that gun to a collector for a very very nice return. He told me that He been looking for one for a few years and the ones he found were damaged due to Steel shot. The early guns were not made for that stuff in mind. These days I shoot a Vinci, and well I don't worry about it, a good forty + Auto 5 is too good to drag thru the duck swamps. Shoot turkeys with it.