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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
You rely on your imagination and google a little more than is convincing to me.I'm going to get ready to go watch my Grandson's football game.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire Regular
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So all four officers who witnessed the shots were watching from a mile off,saw the two hits and knew the enemy soldiers were killed dead.And they knew the enemy soldiers were "snipers" rather than regular soldiers.
And in your study of history of the Korean War , did you happen to run across any rifle kills at distances extreme enough to be thought worthy of mention? What would have been considered an extreme distance for a kill with a 30 cal. rifle?
I don't know whether it's true or not, but I do know that by that point in the war, there would have been almost no place where the lines were as close as 200 yards. Secondly, I can see few situations where a plaque would have been necessary to commemorate a shot that anyone could have made. But if one had been made in the situation you postulated (that of of the CPT saving their arses) I would have expected it to say something along the lines of "In gratitude for..." instead of saying "witnessed by..." because quite frankly, no one needs to name witnesses to verify a couple of two hundred yard shots. It was pretty easy to see across a valley to a ridge denuded of vegetation by artillery fire by that point in the war. And what is one thing that generals who come to look over the lines usually have with them? That's right binoculars. So, I imagine they could see the enemy pretty well. And if those enemy happened to be carrying long Moisens, then they called them "snipers". As for the rest, I don't know. I'm sure there were lots of noteworthy things that happened in Korea that we've never heard of. Then again, it could all be a hoax. We have no idea who created the plaque. There is one thing on the plaque that is demonstrably false. MG Ridings was not CG of 3rd ID in December of 1952. So, that fact alone has to throw the whole thing into some doubt no matter which version of events you prefer.
Last edited by Cossatotjoe_redux; 09/22/11.
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Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Feb 2001
Posts: 24,239 |
I don't believe the Captain killed two snipers with three shots at over a mile with a 30 06.
I don't believe men of the caliber named on the plaque were party to a hoax.
Unlike some of you , I HAVE missed targets the size of a man's torso [they were KILL shots remember] at 200 yards.
With a scope like the Captain had , I can't see a man at a mile , much less kill him.
Y'all are hard to impress.You make mile away shots sound routine.
With a 30 06.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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I don't believe the Captain killed two snipers with three shots at over a mile with a 30 06.
I don't believe men of the caliber named on the plaque were party to a hoax.Unlike some of you , I HAVE missed targets the size of a man's torso [they were KILL shots remember] at 200 yards.
With a scope like the Captain had , I can't see a man at a mile , much less kill him.
Y'all are hard to impress.You make mile away shots sound routine.
With a 30 06. Who said any of them ever even saw the rifle? I would expect that if any of those men were party to the plaque they would have at least known that Eugene Ridings was not CG of 3rd ID in December 1952. And, I hate to break it to you, but there may have been some obscure Army captain in 1952 who was a better shot than you are.
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The sniper story in the OP ! I call BS. Someone is making money from inflating the value of that rifle and people/s are falling for it.
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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The sniper story in the OP ! I call BS. Someone is making money from inflating the value of that rifle and people/s are falling for it. That is what I have to believe as well. Someone who knew a enough to get the names right, but not enough to avoid making a critical mistake like naming Ridings the CG six months before he took command.
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Joined: May 2009
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2009
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Hold on now, I routinely make 2/3 hits at over a mile with a 30-06 and a scope that won't be out for another 6 years. Just like this story, no one has ever heard of me doing this and it's never been reported, even though I have a plaque on the rifle with Congressmen and Senators listed as witnesses. You will just have to take my word for it. 
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Joined: Feb 2001
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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And I might very well be a better shot than you .Which has just as much relevance to the thread topic as your statement.Which is to say;NONE.
You have been all over the place with your suppositions.You have gone from proposing that he made the "mileaway" shot from an entrenchment to now claiming that he didn't make the shot and someone [????] cooked up the story to inflate the value of the rifle.
And you attach a lot more significance to what google says about Gen Riddings' duty station than is warranted.
I'm done.
BTW,I left the grandson's game at the end of the third quarter with his team ahead 55-0.
Never holler whoa or look back in a tight place
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Posts: 14,725 Likes: 2
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 14,725 Likes: 2 |
Leave the plaque alone. To change it would debase a significant artifact. I frankly can easily believe that the shots were made at the distances stated.
Some of you have no frame of reference for what is possible, even doable on a regular basis with a good rifle at long range by a man who knows how to use it. Here is a case in point. As has already been pointed out, Jim Terry went 5 out of 6 on a hostile target at 1538 yards with a 45-110 Sharps a while back. A couple of you had trouble believing or accepting that, thinking it was luck.
Here is your reality check. I know Jim Terry, have known him for years, and have competed with him many times. Yes, he hit the hostile 5/6. But there were several other shooters at that match that went four out of six, and didn't win. While Jimbo is one of the better shots at that game, there are a lot of other guys that did not find what he did to be astounding. They do the same thing on a regular basis.
You may be surprised to find out that there is an annual match held on the Wasserburger Ranch outside of Lusk, Wyoming where the targets are set at a surveyed mile from the firing line. The match is shot with buffalo rifles, mainly Sharps, using IRON SIGHTS. Jim Terry and a number of other guys not only shoot there, they regularly shoot and hit at distances that many of you can't comprehend.
My hunting rifle is a Sharps, equipped with open iron sights. No scope. I PRACTICE on a regular basis by shooting gallon milk jugs filled with water at 400 and 500 yards several times a week. A man that truly knows his rifle and knows how to use it can successfully engage targets at ranges others do not believe, and even after they see it they will call it a lucky shot. It's not always luck, trust me. I always say, fear the man with one rifle. Sharpsguy "Some of you have no frame of reference for what is possible, even doable on a regular basis with a good rifle at long range by a man who knows how to use it." Man....you just ain't a bumping ya gums there my friend! Most....don't have a friggin clue!!
Even birds know not to land downwind!
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2005
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Look you BP guys, the simple FACT of the matter is that a well tuned, heavy BPCR running the right load will blow the DOORS off of an '06 (Particularly with the only AMMO that was available, at the time)....at the ranges DISCUSSED,.....
and you're not the only two here that understand that, or would BET on that.
GTC
Member, Clan of the Border Rats
-- “Sometimes I wonder whether the world is being run by smart people who are putting us on or by imbeciles who really mean it.”- Mark Twain
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
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The sniper story in the OP ! I call BS. Someone is making money from inflating the value of that rifle and people/s are falling for it. That is what I have to believe as well. Someone who knew a enough to get the names right, but not enough to avoid making a critical mistake like naming Ridings the CG six months before he took command. Well then he better get busy and sell the durn thing already.Its been three years now,and it aint sold yet.
**********************
[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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Campfire Regular
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I know shooters measure distances in yards, but the plaque says "surveyed" distance. I'm not a surveyor, but I do deal with surveys daily for work, and I don't remember ever reading a surveyed distance given in yards. Feet, varas, rods, chains, etc., not yards. 1950 feet = 650 yards, a bit more believable to me. Maybe the plaque makers used the wrong measure of distance. But who knows??
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
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An interesting hypothesis.
What do you think?
Is it too ambitious or too naive to look for an honest politician? Or simply a useful one?
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An interesting hypothesis.
What do you think? As stated, I'm no surveyor, and I am damn sure not a sniper, but two hits out of three shots from over a mile with that rifle setup seems pretty far fetched to me. Add in the fact that the targets were humans, and as snipers would (should) have been in deep concealment, it's even more unbelievable. Sniper #2 would have had to have been a complete dumbass if he wasn't on the move after seeing #1 get popped, so more difficulty. The feat seems much more reasonable and believable if the distance was 1950 feet, and not yards. Two 650 yard shots I can buy.
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And I might very well be a better shot than you .Which has just as much relevance to the thread topic as your statement.Which is to say;NONE.
You have been all over the place with your suppositions.You have gone from proposing that he made the "mileaway" shot from an entrenchment to now claiming that he didn't make the shot and someone [????] cooked up the story to inflate the value of the rifle.
And you attach a lot more significance to what google says about Gen Riddings' duty station than is warranted.
I'm done.
BTW,I left the grandson's game at the end of the third quarter with his team ahead 55-0. Not really, the only thing I completely rule out is the assisine theory that the shot was less than two hundred yards, other than that, I'm pretty much open to anything. However, on balance, given the difficulty of the alleged shot, the fact that it is an unusual rifle that would have been unlikely (not impossible) to be at the front, the scope not even being manufactured in 1952, and the getting the date or the CG wrong, I would come down on the side of it not happening at all. All I can say in response to your assertion that I rely too heavily on googled records is to say that I would assume that the Association of the Third Infantry Division which has a complete list of commanding generals and their dates of command from the formation of the division to the present day would know when Eugune Ridings was their commanding general. Records from a mere 60 years ago are pretty easy to verify.
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I know shooters measure distances in yards, but the plaque says "surveyed" distance. I'm not a surveyor, but I do deal with surveys daily for work, and I don't remember ever reading a surveyed distance given in yards. Feet, varas, rods, chains, etc., not yards. 1950 feet = 650 yards, a bit more believable to me. Maybe the plaque makers used the wrong measure of distance. But who knows?? I would agree with that in general, but artillery surveying is done in meters. In the early 1950s, it was yards. So, if they got the artillery guys to survey it, it probably would have been done in yards in 1952.
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New Member
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New Member
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To Calhoun:
It was good to put the link in your message. I'm sure others will connect with long lost pals using it.
I did contact a man who was looking for FTA..the screaming eagle.. through a korean war 7th inf. site.
It is quite enlightening to read the intelligent commentary.
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Posts: 43,777 Likes: 1
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 43,777 Likes: 1 |
Glad to do it. I hope you can connect with some of the guys who served under your father and get some good stories and information from them.
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I would agree with that in general, but artillery surveying is done in meters. In the early 1950s, it was yards. So, if they got the artillery guys to survey it, it probably would have been done in yards in 1952.
Thanks for explaining that, I didn't think about the artillery measuring in meters. Blows my theory  Not the first time.
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Campfire Outfitter
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It is quite enlightening to read the intelligent commentary.
thorneater: A lot of us here are just a bunch of roughneck kids. I hope you'll take that "intelligent commentary" with a grain of salt, and understand that most of us just want to know more about your dad and the story behind the rifle. And here you come along (and you are indeed so very welcome here) and give us just a leetle bit of information, and, like the roughneck kids that we are, we want to know MORE. And, of course, when we don't get what we want immediately, we start making up our own stories, like kids will. It's a nuisance, sometimes, but I hope you'll forgive us our trespasses. And, of course, tell us more. Do I understand correctly that your father received his battlefield commission directly from George Patton? That by itself is a great story. - Tom
Last edited by tjm10025; 09/23/11. Reason: spelling
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