Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Alaskan River Craft

Any of you guys running Mud Buddy outboards on freighter canoes? If so, cart to elaborate on loads, fuel economy, and maybe how they compare to a outboard jet setup?

I don't know anyone running a mud buddy or jets on their freighter canoe. They are all running outboard props.

Might also want to check here:

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com...oeing?s=546e3920b5d3afda9e29de3b76d2ae22

Thanks Jake, it appears most are using outboards with local Alaskan fabricated "lifts", but some are playing with the Mud Buddies on large Scott freighter canoes. There is also a more task specific "mud" motor sized for cargo canoes called the Copperhead:

http://www.copperheadmfg.com/

TAK, there's a recent post on the directory about the Copperhead.

yeah, the main problem with a lift is the increase in torque it puts on the stern.

I run a '62 4hp Merc on my canoe. Does that count? (Props are getting hard to come by)

Hey, Take a knee ...

There are at least 4 guys, in the Fairbanks area, including me, who are using 21' Scott Hudson Bay freighter canoes (made in Ontario) mounting MudBuddy Mini surface-drive motors. One uses a 18hp Mini, the rest use the 23hp version. I took mine hunting for the first time this Fall. Very nice rig. Kind of a 4 wheel drive, homesteader, backwoods, hunting, fishing - rod or net or, where legal, dipnet-, traveling, general purpose pickup kind of a boat. Great for poking around in hard to reach places. Will haul a genuine 2000# with 6" freeboard. Economical: recently, I burned 9 gallons of gas on a round trip of 116 miles, while breaking-in the new motor.

My HB/MB has already gone into, and gotten me in and out of one condition that would have disabled my long time canoe ... a 19' Grumman with a lifted 15hp. I ended up in a creek where a thin layer of watery mud,lay on top of dense mud. HB neatly dug it's way out of the muck, throwing a latte rooster tail. And the fiberglass hull slides over mud and logs better than aluminum.

I'm still learning the rig's abilities. Nice rig.

Thanks, nice rig. Do you trailer it with that Mud Buddy mounted on the transom? That outfit looks far more preferable to me than a jet boat.

Take a knee ...

Yes, With the canoe strapped onto the trailer and the skeg strapped to the trailer frame, steering handle tied down and the MudBuddy covered with a heavy duty trailering cover, thats how I pull it. I lengthened the tongue so that the bunks reach the very rear of the hull, and installed/epoxied a machined piece of 1/2" X 3" X 18"6061T6 inside the transom, with recesses for the mount's machine screws and then thru-bolted Gr8 3/8" bolts from the outside to inside.





In other words, I reinforced the transom substantially ... specifically to cope with trailering.

And, jet boats, IMHO, are a great, extravagant means of wasting fuel. The HB/MB rig is very practical, capable and can travel great distances without resupply. And it hauls a larger load. What's not to like.

That looks like one hell of a canoe! 2k pounds. It can haul!

I had a Scott 21' Hudson Bay had a 8hp 2 stroke outboard and a lift very efficient would run at 10- 12 MPH loaded. You could walk the gunnel. With a 4 stroke 20 HP it moved at 17 MPH loaded. Used hardly any fuel. Could not find a lift that I felt comfortable leaving the motor on while travelling.

With the 8 hp and the lift I could run motor above the bottom of the hull!
Could run it in well under 6 to 8 inches of water not fast but moving forward.

Yukoner has been running the big canoes for many years.

Yukon and Fairbanks water seem to be more suited than our SC AK
shallow rocky streams.

kk alaska and all ...

Make that 'Yukon and Interior Alaska waters' and that could apply. However, the HB's hull, a very tough, thick composite, can be armored with additions of Kevlar cloth or Kevlar felt to deal with rocky bottoms or other threats, if necessary. And we all have had exposure to aluminum boats that have been punctured in isolated venues.

The picture of my HB/MB on its trailer shows the MB trim locked in the trailering position.

Some pictures of the motor trimmed for work.



This is the MB in its lowest trim position. I have had no use of the motor trimmed this deep. Note that the prop is just below the bottom of the hull. Supposed to be for deep mud or dense grass or conditions I can't yet imagine.



This is the setting that I used most of the time while traveling. Note that the prop is well above the hull's bottom. At this level, it runs with the prop just piercing the surface, i.e., surface-drive. With this rig, if the boat can float, the MB will push it.

I have much to learn about this rig, particularly how to properly trim the MB for individual conditions. And its a great experience so far.

kk alaska, and others who happen by here, have spent many threads together in the most active canoeing/motor canoeing forum in the world - literally. The links above are right, but, here again ...

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/forumdisplay.php/18-Alaska-Canoeing

The archives for that forum have years(!) of information on these motorized freighter canoes. It only took the real experts there 3 years to convince me that there is a better solution for the task than my 19' Grumman with the 15hp Yamaha and Klingel lift. The Hudson Bay with the Mudbuddy Mini is vastly better and more capable. The Scott Hudson Bays has been in hard-use, reliably, in northern Canada, including the rocky Canadian Shield, since the mid 1960's. And the MudBuddy belt drive motors have been in use since 1995 ... the lighter Mini models have been in use since 2006 and, here, have proven reliable. To me, that's a big deal. The Copperhead is a new product of a new company. I'll let others experiment with them. I have friends who use their HB/MBs hard, on remote trips with no broken spot welds or parts vibrating off. I some times go on trips - 100+ miles or more - alone, with one of my dogs. Reliable performance is the key.

Enough of my rant. Thanks for the interest. And, of course, all the above is just my humble opinion.

Gol-dang that's a neat rig!

Thinking the two aluminum Grummans and a few guns gotta be sold!

Maybe even have to find a full-time job.... I have some places in mind...

endgame
If only AOD had any semblence of veracity... they value anything but facts over some of the most incredibly idiotic moderators to ever populate a website...

Phonies of the highest order get patted on the back for post counts despite the fact their version of "helping" includes utter bullshit and seriously false information.... From their "Poster of the Year" for 2010 to their idiot Murphy moderating the firearms forum without a clue the whole site is just "Special"...

But that is one helluva a boat!

I guess the Grumman's one redeeming quality is you can leave the sucker out in the weather. If you want glass or royalex (especially royalex) to last you gotta keep it out of the sun. I'd imagine it also needs to be stored somewhere it won't be bumped when it's way down below zero also.

"And, jet boats, IMHO, are a great, extravagant means of wasting fuel. The HB/MB rig is very practical, capable and can travel great distances without resupply. And it hauls a larger load. What's not to like."


Yah, so what's your point? we only burned 118 gals of gas this season to find and haul in one moose, but lordy were we loaded with gear, too much bullchit!

I too have a Grumann freighter and a 15 hp Honda with a lift, have always felt I'd been better served with an 8hp motor as the 15 on the lift calls for lots of counterbalance in the bow.

saw a few mudbuddy's on the river and they definitely have my attention.

love your setup, and like las i'm sitting here wondering how to finance a new mousetrap.


course I'm gonna keep the jetboat though, this time of year, momma really seems to like a windshield and full canopy, gas be damned....(grin)

Well, I guess Sitka deer has a personality conflict with the AOD forums.

However, my goal in coming to any forum is information. All information on the internet has to be judged ... some is good, some is bad, but sources of information are what I seek.

The link I gave above was for the 'Alaska-canoeing forum' at AOD. No forum I've been able to find has a comparable archive of information from people with actual experience using motorized square stern canoes, particularly in Alaskan conditions.

If you are intrigued with the concept of powered canoes, check that archive. There's a lot of good info, as well as some B.S. and occasional blowhards, as on any internet forum.

Take a knee's original question asked if anyone was running MudBuddys on freighter canoes. Yes, a number of us are, and the link above offers much more info, should you care to look.

From a Texan that knows nothing about this rig but thinks it is way cool:

If you can pack up to 2000 lbs of stuff in a canoe, how do you get from the back to the front without climbing over it all?

2legit2quit ...

Windshields and tops aren't the exclusive province of jetboats. Most open boats can be so fitted. The big Scott freighter canoes are very adaptable to the owners tastes and needs. Here's kandik's version:





Another HB owner, Bing, has made his canoe into a camper, powered by a 8hp Honda. Check out his rig on this thread:

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/101962-Scott-Hudson-Bay-on-the-Erie-canal

That HB reminds me of a VW camper/bus. Neat, and Bing got the rig as he wanted it, for his use.

My wife has never gotten in my old and beloved 19' Grumman. Heard too many of my well told tales of near death experiences. But she likes driving the HB/MB. And that's progress.

Reloder28 ...

Sometimes you have to climb over part of your load ... no big deal, and the boat is stable enough to use the gunwale as a way-around, if necessary. By the way, my HB is 56" wide at the gunwales. It's not a paddle canoe. Next Spring, I plan on installing oarlocks.

There are some U.S. Scott dealers, particularly in the New England states, but Alaskans have to go to the Whitehorse, YT dealer - Kanoe People - to buy a new one. If one comes up for sale in Ak, it's gone before the word spreads, to someone at the door with cash in hand.

Part of the fun of these Hudson Bays is the interest they seem to stir.