Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Carbine question... which cartridge for 18" barrel?

My main deer rifle for western Oregon brush hunting was a Ruger Compact with a 16" barrel, in 7mm-08.

Had a 6x36mm Leupold on it. It was a real JOY to pack.

Have the same rifle in .223 now.

Virgil B.

To me carbine means short to moderate range so I always first think of a 30-30 lever. No fuss no muss for over 100yrs. The little cz 7.62x39 is also sort of attractive. I Have a ruger rsi in 243 and like it or the 308 but 30-06 length cartridges don't appeal to me for some reason, My buddy had a 30-06 mark x for a while but you couldn't stand to be around either as the shooter or watching. The blast was awful.

A SS M7 in 7/08 would fit nicely in the set parameters..

A relative of mine wrote this review on his CVA Scout Stainless in 7mm-08.

In late December I picked up my new Scout in 7mm-08. Upon opening the box the stainless fluted barrel and lightweight feel of the rifle struck me as features that clinched the deal on purchasing the rifle in the first place. Looking into the box a Dead On one piece scope base/intregal mount was supplied with the rifle a $40 retail item. The supplied base is rock steady on the rifle and is secured with four torx bit fasteners. The lower part of the base is one piece and includes the lower part of the scope rings. The upper scope rings are fastened to the lower part of the rings with torx bit screws. These were very solid as well.
The receiver is noticeably "missing" any spline pins that are standard on my Handi's and Toppers and is smooth from the buttstock to forend. The word Scout is also etched in each side of the receiver. The caliber designation and CVA Scout logo are lazer etched into the barrel in a black color writing. The 22" barrel has 9 inches of fluting begining near the end of the forend and extend down toward the muzzle of barrel ending about 2 1/2" from the muzzle. The forend is approxiamately 10" long and is square shaped and lightly checkered to supply a good hand grip. Two standard screws attach the forend to the barrel and the forend is supplied with a swivel stud about 3/4" from the end of the forend itself.
The ambidextrous buttstock is a black composite along with the forend being black composite. Overall length of the buttstock is 15" and a swivel stud is molded into the buttstock as well. The Crush Zone recoil pad is similar to the cushy Limbsaver and increases the ease to shoulder of this rifle.
The trigger guard houses the breeching lever and is made out of some type of metal alloy. The trigger breaks easily at 3.1lbs measured with a RCBS trigger pull guage. An ambidextrous hammer extension is supplied with the rifle and is easily switched from side to side because the end of the hammer is threaded for quick switching.
The barrel is an extractor type and the barrel breech and the standing receiver breech are nicely finished. Lock up is 100% positive with no side wobble and no visible light detected between breech and barrel face.

I installed the scope mount system and mounted a Redfield Revolution 2-7x33mm scope on this rifle and as soon as the weather permits here in the frozen tundra, I'll post a range report. I purchased a box of factory WW 140 grain ammo and will use these to check for fit and function. After that I plan to handload some Hornady 139 grain SP Interlocks and some Speer 145 grain Hot-Cor bullets. As soon as I can test I'll post a part 2 with some pics.

More Later...................

Here is the second part of his review on the Scout Stainless. OAL of rifle is 37"Let me preface this with the fact that this is preliminary and I just wanted to check out the Scout for fit and function. For this test I purchased Winchester Factory 140 grain soft point ammo. The range was my home bunker @100 yards. The temperature here in Cheeseville was 24 degrees. I eyeball boresighted the rifle and have a Redfield Revolution 2-7x33mm w/ standard plex reticle mounted in the Dead On Factory supplied one piece mount and rings.

I fired a total of six shots to get the scope settings near the bullseye and then fired three more shots after I finished tweaking the scope settings. The Redfield preformed well and the scope adjustment indeed worked, as some have reported the adustments were finicky and non repeatable. I did not have those problems.

The cartridge inserted into the chamber fairly easily and extraction was positive after each shot with no troubles. The breeching lever was somewhat "stiffer" after the shot than before but worked 100%. Possibly this will work easier after a break in period as the case looked ok and primer was in the "usual" range as far as flatness goes, and the case dimension did not expand much either. The Crush Zone recoil pad made each shot kinda melt into your shoulder and recoil was not a factor. I suspect though that with the 7mm-08, recoil is not a factor even for a sub 6lb. rifle. Trigger pull was at 3.1 pounds on my RCBS trigger pull guage, and the trigger was smooth and crisp with no creep.

I posted some pics with this including my last 4 shots. The one in the white was the first shot , then I moved the scope again and fired the last three shots and I couldn't be more pleased. ( I'm not as efficient on the bench as I used to be) Further testing with W760 and Big Game propellants is to follow and hopefully a little better weather surfaces to facilitate better shooting conditions. I did not take my chronograph out but if the temp goes over 30 I'll get it out. While the weather doesn't always hold me back the cold keeps my Chrony on the sidelines.

I'm very happy with the weight, length and preformance of this rifle. Hopefully my handloads will shoot this good or better as ammo is $25 per box for this caliber.

I didn't include his pics, though I could get them from him as we shoot together quite often.

If you want bolt gun, and don't want to mess with a Tikka, the easiest route is to go buy a Remington 700 Youth in 243. The older ADL synthetic versions make great beater guns that actually point and shoot very well.

Since you asked.

As a truck 'beater' and NOT worry about being stolen, I would NOT consider any Ruger #1. Have you checked the $$$ of any # 1.

I agree with others, 20" is as short as I would go. Having owned, loaded, experimented with many guns and calibers, I can tell you the 308 win is VERY efficient and IMHO one of the best in carbine lenght.

2nd choice, 7-08 or 260 Rem. In carbine length, short cartridges seems to fit the profile. As a 'truck beater' an economical rifle should be considered.

Good luck and Good hunting.

I have a Win 94 Wrangler in .32 Win Spec with a 16" barrel. Short barreled levers are nice to handle. I also have a Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70.

Don't overlook the H&R Handi Rifle single shot. The OAL of a 22" barreled H&R is about the same length of a 19" bolt. Reasonably accurate and lots of different calibers.

A CZ 550FS full stock in .308 would be sweet.

For the most part the 336 and low power scope is a classic for this and yet I sure wouldn't argue with the M7 pushers either. A few years ago I was trolling around the yuppy gunstore in the local mall. They specialize in selling NEW high priced guns at full retail to folks who don't know no better. They don't allow much on trade ins and when they get more than a few used guns in their miniscule used rack they mark them down hard. So there I was and there was a original 1st year production M700 ADL Carbine with a 20 " barrel in 30-06 for $229. Yeah it had the aluminum butt replaced with a cheapo recoil pad and the previous owner had removed the rear barrel sight. He had also neatly made the stock cut out for a receiver sight but it was gone.. Bought it for the going price and tax. I had an original rear barrel sight at home so installed it,gun shot well. Found an original alumimun buttplate for $5 put it on. 3 wks later found a Lyman rec sight that it was cut for. Installed it and zeroed the barrel rear for 75 yds and the rec at 150 yds. You push the detent button on the Lyman and it slides out. Put Weaver bases on the receiver and rings with a M8 4x zeroed at 200 yds. 30-06, buy anywhere anytime load up- load down ,110 gr to 220 allways works and never wrong.46 years old and change at the time,found some old 150 gr RP factory loads in the Green -red -white boxes from the 60's too. Shot just fine zeroed them at 200. That fall on the next to last day of the Black Hills season I used it for a 140+ 5x6 whitetailbuck at 130 yds. 30-06 never really wrong anywhere. Maybe if you don't get in to big a hurry you could find one of these old 700 or 760 Carbines in 30-06 they are a value. I had a M70 PF carbine 20" 270 Win muzzleblast was terrible it went down the road, also a M77 RL in 30-06 to much cart for the gun, recoil made you wanna go gun shopping. Best of luck. Magnum Man

I live, hunt and have worked in the same Oregon woods, at the risk of a few moans and groans from some forum members, some of us older hunters out here have also found 88 Winchesters in .308 to be a great truck gun and handy in the timber. Fast lever action, detachable magazine so loading and unloading is a snap when getting in and out of a truck and drilled and tapped for a scope. I have had a couple and they have been very accurate as well. They can be had pretty reasonably if you look around since you mentioned being on a budget

I have similar needs as your own, however my general range requirement is limited to 200 yards rather than 300. Since I live in western Washington that is usually not an issue.

I find that my 18.5" 336T in 30-30 with a Williams peep is mighty handy, and I have no problem hitting the 200 yard steel plate at my range with it. I also have a Ruger No. 1S in 45-70 with a 4X scope. Although it is mighty handy I would never leave it in an unattended vehicle as it would break my heart to lose it. My 22" Rem 760 in 308 with a 4X scope is a pretty skookum truck gun, particularly with the clip-fed feature. No trouble at 300 yards with this one. All keepers, though the first two are a little handier.

Since you mention bears I and because this area has its share of long open areas I would say go with a 308. It is big enough for bear, the ammo availability is great, and for a father the price is better than any round other than the 30-06.

In matters like this the way to go is to see what is available for sale too. Your looking for a bargain so it pays to be flexible.

"And i would always caution going below about 20", where you tend to start reaching the rapid exponential decline in muzzle velocity and exponential increase in muzzle blast."

Not quite true. Velocity loss is not all that much. Case in point, the rifle, a Ruger M77 tang safety RSI with 18.5" barrel. This rifle proved to be vey fussy using any conventional powder and bullet combo. I finally found a load using W760 (I know, a bit too slow for the .308) and the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core. The load chronographed at 2550 FPS ifiteen feet from the muzzle. That same day I shot that load I also ran it through a Winchester M70 with 22" barrel. The velocity? 2610 FPS, a whole 60 FPS faster than the shorter barreled rifle. Muzzle blast was not all that bad. That load will take deer down hard at least to 250 yards which is the longest shot I've had to take with the Ruger RSI. That deer was a big Nevada Mule Deer that dressed out at 196 pounds.
I've hunted the extreme northwest corner of California and on the Olympic Penninsula in Washington and I've been through coastal Oregon more than once. My thoughts are a short 18.5 to 20" .308 would be just about perfect. My TRemington 660 with 20" barrel has dropped big deer out to 427 paces shooting a hot loaded 150 gr. Sierra Pro-Hunter. The load used H335 and if you do not want flash and blast, stay away from H335. The muzzle blast with that powder is extremely load and the flash is such that you will see a big ball if very bright light at high noon in the middle of summer. THat W760 load is much quieter in comparison.
Paul B.

Ruger lever action 44 magnum, Marlin or Winchester. Ruger 77/44 also may work.

As much as I loathe SS rifles, I just picked up a Ruger stainless Mannlicher (RSI) in 7x57. It has the 18 1/2" barrel and will get bedded in a greatly lightened Ultralight stock. I am torn between optics (a Vari-X III 1.5-5x) or an NECG peep. I just loaded up some 160 gr AB's for it and will head out to dial in the factory sights this week. Would seem to fit your bill too.

Big time, wrap a Ti take handle round it and you have a version of Dobers Redneck Carbine. Inexpensive and very capable and handy as can be.

Dober

One of all time fav pics from the Fire!

Dober

A Remington model 7 in .308 or a BLR in .308

this is another situation like the 270 vs. 30-06. no right answer.

I have several carbines-
1. Rem M600 Mohawk .308, 18.5" barrel, Numrich checkered walnut stock. Great shooter.
2. Win M70 LtWt carbine, .308, 20" barrel. Perfect carry gun, but it's a fussy eater. 3 shots in 1.25-1.5" with a load it likes.
3. Win M670 carbine, .30-06, restocked with a Win factory synthetic stock. Very good shooter.
4. TC Encore, .243, 24" barrel. Good shooter, my grandkids will use this.
5. Win M94AE, .30-30, 20" barrel. Accurate enough for woods hunting with ammo it likes.

Based on what's available today, I'd look at a Rem M7, Rem 700 youth, Rem 7600 carbine, Win M70 compact, Ruger compact, or maybe a Howa Ranch carbine in the caliber of your choice. If you're gonna do a cut down, I'd try a Stevens 200. You won't cry if it's beat up or stolen.

For a beater truck gun, that suggestion of a chopped Stevens 200, is not a bad idea. Buy one used, cut and crown the barrel yourself, paint it with Krylon.

BTW, the Stevens in 223 has a 9 twist.