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What is the most accurate bolt action 22 lr you can buy out of the box? Not looking to spend cooper money. I've been told the ruger 77/22 or the cz 452. You guys feel that its between those two? Thanks.

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well, most .22s iv'e known are not exactly tack drivers due to the shape of the bullet itself. of course, there are exceptions. the most accurate .22 bolt gun iv'e ever seen was a marlin 783 (.22 mag) so i would think the new xt22s with their micro grove barrels would be on up there, if not on the top. most rugers iv'e seen were not super accurate out of the box. now mind you i'm expert, but i hope this helps.


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I have owned numerous 22's over the years, mostly accurate ones, such as 40X.s, Win 52's, Rem 541's, Cooper's, Walther's and a slew of others. But without stepping up to the big dollar 22's the most accurate out of the box 22's I have run across are the CZ 452's.

They are not perfect, they require a bit of trigger work, the action requires quite a bit of cycling before it smooths out, the barrel channel may require some work to stop the barrel from rubbing, but each and everyone I have played with has been extremely accurate after just a bit of correction and a very low dollar investment up front.

If I could only afford one 22 and wanted the best "bang for the buck" it would be a CZ 452.

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Coopers would be on the short list. I agree with CZ's, also. I have both. Also the Anschutz is a good one. Probably the best buy for an Anchutz is the Weatherby version. Anschutz action, Weatherby wood. I even had a 40XB sporter with a clip. It was accurate, but the match chamber wasn't that handy with regular ammo and I traded it for something, don't even remember what.

My favorite bolt action .22 LR squirrel rifle is a Cooper Classic with Kahles scope. I've made a number of offhand shots at 50 yds. The trigger is just that good and the rifle shoots one hole groups on my indoor 50' range. It's a keeper, for sure.

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under say about 750 bucks or so go cz.

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I have not owned the Ruger so can't comment on it. I have two CZ 452s and my wife has one. All three are great shooters. All three have different ammo preferences.

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One of the benchrest rifles, like Remington 40X, is probably the most accurate. Doubt a Ruger would be even close. If you're looking for a super accurate sporter, I like Anschutz, Brno, CZ, early Kimber. My most accurate .22 is an Anschutz 1416.


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Gunchamp: Of the two brands you mention I would give the Ruger 77/22 V/T a try!
I have a couple of close friends that have the Ruger 77/22 V/T's and they ARE accurate.
One has had a Clark trigger job done it but the other is all stock - they both shoot just under 1/2" at 50 yards.
The rotary magazine of the Ruger just puts it in a class all by itself for speed, looks and convenience.
I had to spend some serious moola to get a Kimber Model 82-G, a Kimber Hunter/Silohuette and a Remington 40X that can BARELY outshoot my friends Rugers with Varminting ammo!
The CZ heavy barrel 22's shoot well indeed but the bassackwards safety and the hang down clips make them undesirable to me.
Best of luck with whichever you choose.
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The 22 lr.s do not have a "hang-down" clip, the CZ 22 mags and 17 HMR's do though.

I am not a fan of the backwards safety but then I never put a round in the chamber of any rifle until I am ready to shoot, and if I don't fire the round then I extract it, I do not rely on a safety anyway so it really wouldn't bother me.

It is hard to say something bad about a rifle that sells in the $350 range and performs like the CZ 452 does.

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Do the CZs have the single set trigger?

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Stoney...

Yes, they do. I have one. It's call the Model 453.

The Model 453 is merely a Model 452 with a factory single-set trigger. As far as the "backwards safety" goes... I never use the safety on my Varmint-model CZ 453 (Varmint model = heavy 20" barrel, no sights). In addition, the 5-shot clip is "flush-fit" in the stock.

The Model 453 cost about $100 more than the Model 452 when new, so don't be surprised if a 453 owner wants to get some of that $100 back when selling the 453 used.

With careful adjustment of the small screw located next to the trigger inside the trigger guard, you can get the single-set trigger down to just "ounces" in trigger pull, but if you set it too light, it can be set off merely by moving the bolt-handle or flipping the safety on and off. But, again... I never use the safety and have never fired my CZ453 unless set up on a bench-rest. Therefore, there has never been any reason to fool around with the bolt-handle once a round is chambered.

While it was very accurate out-of-the-box, I had my gunsmith pillar-bed the action, fiberglas-bed the receiver and re-float the heavy barrel... and with Wolf Match Target ammo, it shoots 'most all of its rounds into one ragged hole at 50 yards. So far (in the past 3 years), I haven't run into ANY .22 rimfire rifles that will match the 453's accuracy. It's a REAL "sleeper"... (hehehehe)... and I've won several "free" soft-drinks thanx to the 453's excellent accuracy. grin

It probably wouldn't beat the best, most expensive "Annie", but it didn't cost those BIG BUCK$ either. See if you can find a CZ453 owner who is willing to part with his "baby" if you can't find a new one to buy.

Jus' my 2 �... smile


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If I was going to spend $750 or less on a good bolt .22 I would have to consider a Winchester, or Browning Repo model 52.

You would need to find one on the secondary market but they seem to be readily available.

Check out Rimfirecentral.com, the guys their seem to give good reviews on those guns.

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You can pick up CMP Winchester 52Cs & Ds for less than $700. Most of them can put 10 shots into 1/3" - 3/8" or less at 50 yds with iron sights.


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Originally Posted by gunchamp
What is the most accurate bolt action 22 lr you can buy out of the box? Not looking to spend cooper money. I've been told the ruger 77/22 or the cz 452. You guys feel that its between those two? Thanks.


Not every CZ, Ruger et al are gonna be as "accurate" as some poster on a forum tells you...it's all a crap shoot, though the odds are better if you stick with known performers.
Best thing you can do, is handle the rifles you're considering & decide from there. Once you get it, run different ammo through it till you find something it really likes, then buy a case or two...

That said, I've bought two CZ's this year.

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My first rifle when I was 7 was a marlin 880. I hadn't shot it in awhile so last year I took it out. After plinking for awhile I decided to see if it could truely drive tacks. With my last 4 rounds I shot the tacks off my target at 50 yds. Don't know how the current Marlin 22lr compares but I sure like my 880.


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Alot of good on the cz. Thats what I've been hearing all over the place. Thanks.

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Mebbe a Remington 513T would do the trick. Only have a sample of one, but it's a bughole shooter. 513S would do the same if not abused in the field in the decades of its existence.


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How do the savage rifles shoot?

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I put a Tiney in my 452 just cause I like to tinker. It is set at 2.5 lbs and is very crisp. I also have an Anshutz and although a finer firearm, it does not shoot any better.

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Are the new cz 455's as good as the 452's and 453's?

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Get yourself an old Mossberg Model 44 then go embarras your friends with their high dollar rifles.


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Originally Posted by AKBoater
My first rifle when I was 7 was a marlin 880. I hadn't shot it in awhile so last year I took it out. After plinking for awhile I decided to see if it could truely drive tacks. With my last 4 rounds I shot the tacks off my target at 50 yds. Don't know how the current Marlin 22lr compares but I sure like my 880.


An outstandingly accurate gun for the money. Hunt for one and you might find it in the $200 range. The gun I bought my son, and was so impressed with I bought an 882ss (22 mag) for myself. About the only knock on them is their triger is horrible and could use a little emery cloth. Other than that, buy it, and invest the rest of the money in a decent scope if you like.

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Any experience with the browning t bolt?

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I'd check out a Marlin gun. I have one of the older 1970's model Glenfield's they produced that I only payed $20 for a couple of years ago. I've shot thousands of rounds through that beat up ugly gun and it has been nothing but accurate. I wouldn't hesitate to buy another used one or even give a new Marlin a try.

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My most accurate 22lr is my Anschutz 1907 repeater, but it is well above your price range, and very heavy. My Brno Model 4 is very close behind accuracy wise, but they are long out of production, and they are quite heavy as well. However, if you look around a nice one can be had for around $600 to $700. My most accurate sporters in 22lr have been my Cooper Jackson Hunter, my CZ452,my CZ455. and my old Remington 541S. The CZs and my 541 are very close, with the 541S being ever so slightly more accurate, perhaps due to the better trigger. If I had to buy new, I would go with a CZ453.

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have had very good luck with all of the 580 series and 541's myself..

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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Mebbe a Remington 513T would do the trick. Only have a sample of one, but it's a bughole shooter. 513S would do the same if not abused in the field in the decades of its existence.


My 513t was good enough to win a state championship.


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Originally Posted by gunchamp
What is the most accurate bolt action 22 lr you can buy out of the box? Not looking to spend cooper money. I've been told the ruger 77/22 or the cz 452. You guys feel that its between those two? Thanks.


without a second thought, it's the Cooper! The only thing better is one built off a custom action or a calfee built XP action.
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Originally Posted by VarmintGuy
Gunchamp: Of the two brands you mention I would give the Ruger 77/22 V/T a try!
I have a couple of close friends that have the Ruger 77/22 V/T's and they ARE accurate.
One has had a Clark trigger job done it but the other is all stock - they both shoot just under 1/2" at 50 yards.
The rotary magazine of the Ruger just puts it in a class all by itself for speed, looks and convenience.
I had to spend some serious moola to get a Kimber Model 82-G, a Kimber Hunter/Silohuette and a Remington 40X that can BARELY outshoot my friends Rugers with Varminting ammo!
The CZ heavy barrel 22's shoot well indeed but the bassackwards safety and the hang down clips make them undesirable to me.
Best of luck with whichever you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy


I know of one Cooper that shoots sub .200" groups with a tuner. Without it, it will shoot low threes and high twos. A 40X won't do that, and an Anschutze that does this will set you back a ton of money. I've seen some 52D's that shot like that, but they are hard to find these days. Find a good used Cooper,and do a barrel set back with a 52D chamber.
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My best ever has been a CZ 452.

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Sako Finnfire - of course they are fairly hard to find now. Both Marlin and Savage put out some very accurate little .22s and they certainly won't break the bank.

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Well I have a very accurate CZ 452 varmint and I would recommend the CZ to anyone.

However, I have to say the Savage MkII's are very accurate and I just picked up a FV model on sale with a heavy fluted barrel in a syn stock with the accu-trigger. Any model with a V in the name (Savage models drive me crazy) will be a pretty good shooter. The syn stock is not very good, but makes for a handy rifle. My plan was to change it out and get a Boyd's replacement and use it for 50yd BR.

I did some research on rimfirecentral.com and tuned the trigger to 10 oz, mounted a 4x12 Leupold on the rings provided (oh, came with a 3x9 Chinese scope also), grabbed some SK Stnd plus ammo, and went to my range just to run some rounds through it at 25 yds.

5 shot groups @ 25yds ran from .163-.492. So, I'm pretty happy with this little rifle. I believe with a better stock and some bedding, this gun will be a shooter. Come next spring I will be shooting the CZ and this rifle in the sporter class in the "fun" matches we have. My goal is to get this rifle to shoot in the 3's @ 50, and I am determined!

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will have to say my progression through 22s has lead me a to a CZ 452 American. Mine has had some trigger work and beded. This was my first day at the range at 50 yrds with Federal auto match ammo from Wal-Mart [Linked Image]

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CZ453 with a decent scope will cut staples regularly at 25 yards. And I don't use the set trigger on mine ever. The regular trigger breaks like glass with no creep or overtravel. I got mine used, but as new in box for a good price. One hole groups are the norm at 25. 50 opens up a bit, but a penny or even a dime would cover most groups. wink


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I have a Kimber .22 and it is very accurate, especially with any kind of match ammo.

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Originally Posted by gunchamp
What is the most accurate bolt action 22 lr you can buy out of the box? Not looking to spend cooper money.


Awe, come on! cry Give a Cooper a try grin

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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

My 70 yd group with RWS Target Rifle.

[Linked Image]

Their 40 something yd group. (42 yds IIRC)

[Linked Image]
Alan

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Originally Posted by gunchamp
Alot of good on the cz. Thats what I've been hearing all over the place. Thanks.


************************************************************

Gunchamp...

I had one final thought to share with you because most of the posts have said nothing about it, BUTTTTTTTTTTTTT...

Once you choose your "most accurate" rifle, a "BIGGIE" is the ammo you decide to shoot through it !~!~!

I test over 30 different brands/types of .22 rimfire ammo... and my pillar-bedded CZ453 "Varmint" shot consistently the best (i.e., "most accurately") with Wolf Match/Target .22 rimfire ammo.

Unfortunately, lousy ammo produces lousy groups with amazing consistency... and there's really no way to tell if your rifle is gonna "like" any given brand/type of ammo. There's really no "short-cuts", ya just have to check each brand/type of ammo out and see which one shoots the most accurately IN YOUR RIFLE.

I tried every brand and type of .22 rimfire ammo I could find including the hyper-velocity stuff, the high-velocity stuff, the hollow-pointed stuff and the common so-called standard velocity stuff as well as all the different brands of "target" ammo... and the best was WOLF MATCH/TARGET ammo in my CZ453.

Jus' my 2�... wink


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.


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Originally Posted by Ron_T
Originally Posted by gunchamp
Alot of good on the cz. Thats what I've been hearing all over the place. Thanks.


************************************************************

Gunchamp...

I had one final thought to share with you because most of the posts have said nothing about it, BUTTTTTTTTTTTTT...

Once you choose your "most accurate" rifle, a "BIGGIE" is the ammo you decide to shoot through it !~!~!

I test over 30 different brands/types of .22 rimfire ammo... and my pillar-bedded CZ453 "Varmint" shot consistently the best (i.e., "most accurately") with Wolf Match/Target .22 rimfire ammo.

Unfortunately, lousy ammo produces lousy groups with amazing consistency... and there's really no way to tell if your rifle is gonna "like" any given brand/type of ammo. There's really no "short-cuts", ya just have to check each brand/type of ammo out and see which one shoots the most accurately IN YOUR RIFLE.

I tried every brand and type of .22 rimfire ammo I could find including the hyper-velocity stuff, the high-velocity stuff, the hollow-pointed stuff and the common so-called standard velocity stuff as well as all the different brands of "target" ammo... and the best was WOLF MATCH/TARGET ammo in my CZ453.

Jus' my 2�... wink


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.


+1

Did the same with my Cooper. Tried around 20 different brands. The ones that shot better than my RWS Target Rifle, ran around $15-$18 per box; NOT HAPNIN! Was able to pick up the RWS Target Rifle for about $5.20 per box and bought 5,000 rounds.

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I've shot the varmint T-bolt and they are a shooter. I'd buy one.


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I have a Kimber, Anchutz and 541T in the safe, but find myself grabbing one of my 452's (22lr or 17m2) whenever I go squirrel hunting. The 452 will shoot way better than it's price point.


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Originally Posted by gunchamp
What is the most accurate bolt action 22 lr you can buy out of the box? Not looking to spend cooper money. I've been told the ruger 77/22 or the cz 452. You guys feel that its between those two? Thanks.


How much are you willing to spend?


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I would go with a CZ for the money. I have the CZ 452 American and Varmint with trigger jobs and both shoot great. I also have a Win Repro 52 and a Rem 541 T that I love but I always pull out one of the CZs. I like a .22 that feels like a full size centerfire. I shoot CCI minmags and they shoot into the same hole at 25 yards which is perfect for what I need. I can also shoot eggs easily at 100 yards on a calm day without much effort.

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Originally Posted by Ron_T
Originally Posted by gunchamp
Alot of good on the cz. Thats what I've been hearing all over the place. Thanks.


************************************************************

Gunchamp...

I had one final thought to share with you because most of the posts have said nothing about it, BUTTTTTTTTTTTTT...

Once you choose your "most accurate" rifle, a "BIGGIE" is the ammo you decide to shoot through it !~!~!

I test over 30 different brands/types of .22 rimfire ammo... and my pillar-bedded CZ453 "Varmint" shot consistently the best (i.e., "most accurately") with Wolf Match/Target .22 rimfire ammo.

Unfortunately, lousy ammo produces lousy groups with amazing consistency... and there's really no way to tell if your rifle is gonna "like" any given brand/type of ammo. There's really no "short-cuts", ya just have to check each brand/type of ammo out and see which one shoots the most accurately IN YOUR RIFLE.

I tried every brand and type of .22 rimfire ammo I could find including the hyper-velocity stuff, the high-velocity stuff, the hollow-pointed stuff and the common so-called standard velocity stuff as well as all the different brands of "target" ammo... and the best was WOLF MATCH/TARGET ammo in my CZ453.

Jus' my 2�... wink


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.


That Wolf Match Target is the real deal. It doesn't cost an arm and a leg and it has been the most accurate ammo in each of 4 .22 rifles and 3 .22 handguns I've tried it in. Can't say it beats the Eley or RWS or whatever since I haven't tried those - they aren't readily available around here and just cost too much for general shooting, but it beat Federal match, CCI standard velocity, Winchester Super-X and put Winchester T-22 to shame (T-22 is junk in my estimation, it didn't shoot worth sh*t in anything).

I laid in 4 bricks of Wolf Match Target all from the same lot and use it sparingly in 100 and 200 yard .22 silhouette matches, and now to prove what any particular firearm is really capable of.


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I'd suggest one look to the world class small bore shooters as opposed to us squirrel shooters here. If anyone would know.... Anschutz will likely be in the mix.


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Originally Posted by orion03
Get yourself an old Mossberg Model 44 then go embarras your friends with their high dollar rifles.


24 1/2" bullbarrel pipe with the better part of an entire tree for a stock...rude and crude, but wicked in the accurate dept.

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You may want to look at the Winchester Wildcat - TOZ78. It is a nice inexpensive little .22 bolt that seems very accurate to me. Mine prefers remington target standard velocity for
100 yard shots. I put a cheap tasco pronghorn scope on it and
it makes for a fun day of shooting.

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Cheap?

My Remington 580 single shot, cost my dad about 64.00 in 1976, will shoot .3"-.5" with SK Jagd Rifle Match; my Cooper 57 shoots the same ammo at .7".

Buy the rifle you want and that fits your budget, then test as many types of ammo you can and you should find at least a few that will group less than .5". This may include ammo that costs 10.00 or more per box which should not be a deterrent if you use it for hunting and not plinking.


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My Annie 1416 shoots tiny little bug holes, but the old Marlin 60 semi does too. Also got the wife a 10-22 in a camo synthetic stock that is amazingly accurate. I have a few other that shoot well too, as the ones that don't shoot well don't stay around here long.

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Originally Posted by stubblejumper
My most accurate 22lr is my Anschutz 1907 repeater, but it is well above your price range, and very heavy. My Brno Model 4 is very close behind accuracy wise, but they are long out of production, and they are quite heavy as well. However, if you look around a nice one can be had for around $600 to $700. My most accurate sporters in 22lr have been my Cooper Jackson Hunter, my CZ452,my CZ455. and my old Remington 541S. The CZs and my 541 are very close, with the 541S being ever so slightly more accurate, perhaps due to the better trigger. If I had to buy new, I would go with a CZ453.



[b][/b]I have a BRNO Model 4 that I would sell for $600.00 I have not shot it enough to truly know how it shoots. It is heavy with a loonng barrel. I have both the original sites and a set of BRNO rings. Let me know if anyone has interest.

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Anschutz and Cooper.

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I've had Remington, CZ, Kimber, Winchester, Browning and Marlin but the most accurate 22 I've had is the Anschutz 54 I have now.


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Don't forget about the Anschutz/Weatherby. I like their stock more than the factory Anschutz and IIRC, the price is pretty good. One can shop around and do pretty well.

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My Annie 1416D
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Also has an EFR scope in tip-off mounts.


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My Cooper Classic would hold it own with the Anschutz .22 LR I had. I liked the way the Cooper looked and subsequently traded the Anschutz.

I had a Cooper LVT in .17 HMR that I moved down the road because it was too heavy for a walking around rifle. My current .17 HMR is an Anschutz 1717 sporter, which has the model 54 action. With certain rounds, like the CCI TNT with Speer HP bullets, it will shoot quarter inch. The LVT never did that.

Anschutz, for accuracy, may be matched, but rarely bettered by factory rifles. They raised the bar pretty high and it would probably take a high end custom rifle, at much greater cost, to better an Annie. And that wouldn't be so easy... smile

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Dirtfarmer may be generally correct about Anschutz being tops in accuracy, but that was no so in my case.

My Anshutz was replaced by a Brno 452 because the Brno was more accurate.

The most interesting thing, was that the Anschutz gave really fine accuracy with only a few expensive loads ("Eley Match", and I think the other one was "Eley Club" but I didn't keep the records when I got rid of the rifle more than 25 years ago).

The Brno was much less fussy and bested the Anschutz's best with more than half the loads I tried in the Brno (including some rather cheap ones) so that saved me a lot of cash. At that time, I was into competition shooting and fired about 400 shots per week.

I would not be surprised to find that if you took 100 Anschutz rifles and tested them with, say 10 loads, and compared that to it competitors, the Anschutz might well be at the top of the heap (other than the Rem 40x, that is).

Having shot at quite a few clubs who had "club rifles", I would NOT bet agains CZ coming in very close though!

Cheers,

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jpb,

Sounds like your Anschutz was a real ammo snob. I'd have traded that German huzzy for the Czech any day of the week. Sounds like she is much easier to live with and not such a b___... laugh

You did right.

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Originally Posted by jpb
Dirtfarmer may be generally correct about Anschutz (other than the Rem 40x, that is).



John,

I once had a rather rare rifle, a 70's vintage 40X .22LR sporter with clip. It was very accurate, but had such a tight, match chamber, that I found it next to useless with hunting ammo. And hunting squirrels is what I wanted it for. Rather than mess with the chamber, I traded it. Those things are quite expensive as they didn't make that many. It was sorta heavy, too. No regrets about sending it on down the road. My keeper .22LR is a Cooper Classic and I cycled through several, including Kimber, which can't hold a candle to Cooper, IMHO.

I have a CZ, the long barreled one with military type sights. I forget the model number. Thru the Hawkeye borescope, CZ barrels are a work of art, no machine marks at all. They look like a match Krieger. This CZ is super accurate and I can see what you're saying. With top guns, it often gets down to the individual rifle, as they all can vary somewhat even within the same brand and model.

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The long and short of it is that the aforementioned Mossberg, along with CCI standard velocity ammo, is going to be hard to beat field shooting.

Off the bench you will do better with a higher priced gun, but you pay dearly for each 1/10" reduction in group size.

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For less than $600 get a CZ and have it tweaked or a Savage. For $600-800 I 'd get a used Remingtom 541S it's a beautifull rifle and accurate. For $900-1200 get an Anchutz or a Kimber of Oregon. For $1700 -3500 get a Cooper. It's all about the money.

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Man on man alla this talking leaves no time for shooting. Some kid happy with his Cricket would do better, no.smile


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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
I have a CZ, the long barreled one with military type sights. I forget the model number. Thru the Hawkeye borescope, CZ barrels are a work of art, no machine marks at all. They look like a match Krieger. This CZ is super accurate and I can see what you're saying. With top guns, it often gets down to the individual rifle, as they all can vary somewhat even within the same brand and model.

DF

Dirtfarmer,

I know a couple of guys in Canada that use those long barreled CZ's (actually, these are older and stamped Brno) with subsonic ammo to quietly shoot vermin without bothering anybody.

I don't know the barrel length, but I think it is even longer than 26 inches. Sounds like a pellet gun -- a quiet pellet gun.

John

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The model is 452-2E ZKM. The barrel is 28 3/4" long. It's not quite that long but longer than 28 5/8", so I'm sure it's the nearest even metric measurement to that. The sights are heavy duty, steel military style and are impressive. The trigger can be adjusted by spring strength to what ever pull one wants. Mine is around 3# and is very crisp and clean.

It shoots very tight groups and it's a keeper.

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I checked the CZ website and similar looking rifles with that model number and with the military looking sights have 630mm barrels, which is around 24.8".

In metric numbers, my rifle barrel would be 725-730mm, which isn't listed. So, maybe they don't make them that long any more. Like I said, mine isn't going anywhere.

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Back to the Originial post.....between the CZ and the Ruger.....I have had both....I own the Ruger now. I am not overly fond of the backwards safety....or the 5 round clip. Love the 10 round rotary clip in the Ruger..love the way it carries. I put a Timney in my CZ....after that fiasco I am done with Timney. Put a Rifle Basix in my Ruger...love that gun/trigger combo.

In the past year I had a Cooper and a Winchester 52 Repo. Winchester was ok gun...nothing special but heavy. Cooper.....shot well but no better than my Ruger. Cost 3.5 times as much....would have cried if I had scratched it. Sold it to someone who liked it better than I did and I don't regret it. If I want to kill something I grab the ruger.

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I don't own the Ruger, but a good friend has one that he likes a lot. They are OK once the trigger situation is addressed.

I agree with the CZ safety being sorta weird. Takes some getting used to. Between the two, I prefer the CZ.

IMHO,

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Originally Posted by BenelliHunter
I put a Timney in my CZ....after that fiasco I am done with Timney


What was the problem with the Timney?

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
I checked the CZ website and similar looking rifles with that model number and with the military looking sights have 630mm barrels, which is around 24.8".

In metric numbers, my rifle barrel would be 725-730mm, which isn't listed. So, maybe they don't make them that long any more. Like I said, mine isn't going anywhere.

DF


The model in question is a CZ 452 Ultra Lux or UL. It is listed as having a 28.5" barrel.The stock is beech. The sites are fantastic and the gun is very quiet AND accurate. There are 2 similar looking models with the shorter barrels, a Lux and a Trainer/Special. the only difference is that the Lux has a Walnut stock and the Trainer is Beech.
You can go to rimfirecentral.com and see how passionate the members are about their CZs.

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Pick up a cheap used ruger and have a lilja barrel installed.

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Originally Posted by Bauer
Pick up a cheap used ruger and have a lilja barrel installed.


I spy an oxymoron .... cheap in conjunction with used ruger .... smile


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I would say Anschutz. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used one either. Two of my friends have old ones and the guns shoot better than they do. If you don't care about "new" I looked for years and picked up a Rem 40X Rangemaster. I bought a Microfit stock for it and it shoots. I just mentioned in another post that it likes RWS 40 grain std velocity ammo. I shot under a half inch at 100 yds with in a couple days ago on a pretty windy day. I have a 36 power scope on it and it's not uncommon to see bullets impacting in the same place. You can make cloverleafs at 100 yds if it's calm out. With the Redfield Olympic sights the rifle came with I won both 100 yard matches my club has run.

One thing though, it's heavy. It's got a barrel that looks like it's at least 26 or 28 inches long. My gunsmith wants to hack off some. He said it wouldn't affect the accuracy but I don't know if I should chance it.


Championship shooting supplies is the US importer of Anschutz and they have regular sales and closeouts. I paid about $1000 by the time I was done with my Rem, and the Anschutz sporters can be had for that.

http://www.championshooters.com/store/pages.php?pageid=5



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Originally Posted by avagadro
Originally Posted by Bauer
Pick up a cheap used ruger and have a lilja barrel installed.


I spy an oxymoron .... cheap in conjunction with used ruger .... smile


By the time you bought a Ruger, added a new trigger and a new barrel, you'd have spent more than the cost of a Cooper or an Anschutz. Doubt the new custom rig would out shoot either one.

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Rob - your gunsmith is right - sort of. The shorter length won't reduce accuracy, especially if you're using a scope. But cutting the barrel will introduce a chance of ending up with a less-than-perfect barrel crown - and that can reduce accuracy for sure.

How much do you trust the guy's work? If it was me, I'd leave well enough alone.

edit: Come to think of it - if that barrel is long enough to reduce velocities so bullets leave the barrel at subsonic speeds, and shortening it allows them to exit the muzzle above subsonic - it still could effect accuracy anyway. But that's just speculation on my part.

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Most accurate bolt sporter that I have shot/owned is my Kimber Classic

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Most accurate out of the box?
Take a look at what the serious smallbore target guys and gals shoot at the National Championships at Camp Perry (the people who are shooting 240 tens (out of 240 shots), and at the Olympics....mostly it'll be Anschutz and Walther.
As accurate as some of the other guns that have been mentioned are, one does not see them on the line in serious smallbore competition. Why do you suppose that is?
Of course, there is the cost issue....but that was not part of the OP.
Pete


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cz455 with heavy barrel,thumbhole stock, fitted with Optik 3-9.by 50 scope and for noise reduction a sirocco moderator. i am an agent for a firearms dealer and i mount and zero all the rifles from the shop and for looks and performance and cost i find this combo cant be beat. they just love remington sub sonic.


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I have an accutrigger savage 22LR MKII that doesnt miss nickles at 50 yards with thunderbolts. 4-12x40 scope.
I think i have $250 in the package. warne rings, weaver bases at $50 of that.


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This is still my most accurate 22 rimfire. A Rem 37.

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Originally Posted by PeteD
Most accurate out of the box?
Take a look at what the serious smallbore target guys and gals shoot at the National Championships at Camp Perry (the people who are shooting 240 tens (out of 240 shots), and at the Olympics....mostly it'll be Anschutz and Walther.
As accurate as some of the other guns that have been mentioned are, one does not see them on the line in serious smallbore competition. Why do you suppose that is?
Of course, there is the cost issue....but that was not part of the OP.
Pete


I would say the reason is because it's a very small niche market. Most gun companies want volume sales. Also with a niche market like that its harder to break into the market. I don't doubt for a minute that Cooper could very well compete in that market if they desired to.


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I"m certainly no "expert", but from what I've seen, I'd say the top of the line Anschutz, if not impossible to beat, must be very hard to beat for accuracy.

But for us common folks, the CZ453 "varmint" model with a heavy barrel & a single set trigger, at less than 1/3rd the cost of the top "Annie", are hard to beat for pure accuracy for the "buck".

My own pillar-bedded CZ453 "varmint" .22 rimfire shoots pretty darned good with Wolf Match/Target. Never had enough desire to try the top Eley ammo due to it's high cost, but even Wolf Match/Target is getting outta my price range these days.

Jus' my 2�... smile


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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
Originally Posted by PeteD
Most accurate out of the box?
Take a look at what the serious smallbore target guys and gals shoot at the National Championships at Camp Perry (the people who are shooting 240 tens (out of 240 shots), and at the Olympics....mostly it'll be Anschutz and Walther.
As accurate as some of the other guns that have been mentioned are, one does not see them on the line in serious smallbore competition. Why do you suppose that is?
Of course, there is the cost issue....but that was not part of the OP.
Pete


I would say the reason is because it's a very small niche market. Most gun companies want volume sales. Also with a niche market like that its harder to break into the market. I don't doubt for a minute that Cooper could very well
compete in that market if they desired to.


MCH: I don't see what markets, niche or otherwise, have to do with the answer to my question ("Why do you suppose that is?" Why are Anschutz/Walther rifles the almost universal choice of elite shooters?).
It is not a matter of Cooper or CZ or Ruger competing....those shooters are always looking for some advantage - something that will give them another X -
if they could spend less and shoot as well or better, that is an easy choice for anyone to make. But, they don't use the Cooper's, et al, and it has nothing to do with marketing.
Pete


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WOW that went clearly over your head. It has everything to do with marketing.

Highend Competition target .22lr market narrow (small)=high price less sales.

Hunting/plinking .22lr market pretty broad (large)= rifles ranging in price from mild to wild rifles sold "A LOT".

Now take into account the cost of breaking into an established niche market. Not really worth it. You don't truly believe that only two companies can build rifles to that level do you? Because if you do no matter what I or anyone else post its all a lost cause.


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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter


Highend Competition target .22lr market narrow (small)=high price less sales.

Hunting/plinking .22lr market pretty broad (large)= rifles ranging in price from mild to wild rifles sold "A LOT".

Agreed. I must suppose that your point did go over my head and still does. What I was thinking about was that there is no need for a company like Cooper to market themselves to smallbore shooters. If a rifle is competitive, it sells itself. The breaking into a niche market part does escape me....does that mean that the only way an elite competitor would know about Cooper rifles is if there were some type of marketing effort aimed at them?
In any case....the Cooper's that I have seen must be on the "wild" side of the hunting/plinking market..... some of the ones that I have seen are only a few hundred dollars less than the Anschutz. I sorta doubt that Cooper sells "a lot" of rifles at $2000+ per item.
No disrespect intended to you or to Cooper.
Pete

Last edited by PeteD; 03/02/12.

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Yes if a rifle is competitive it will market itself. But it cost money to develope and build said rifles. Also the biggest hurdle as I see it is those that compete already own Anschutz so getting them to "CHANGE" is hard. Most likely the hardest part of the equation.

So that is were marketing would need to come in before breaking into the niche market. I would think they would need to make some pretty sweet offers of sponsorship to get that. That is costly and for what (small numbers/profits)?

I think you would be surprised at the rifles Cooper sells. But this isn't really about Cooper or any other single company. Its about why other companies most likely don't get into the Highend Competitive 22lr market.

I do believe that the op said he wasn't looking for a Cooper or a Highend Target rifle. I would say that the CZ would most likely be what he is looking for.


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Certainly CZ has a well deserved reputation. If I were in the market for a sporter type. 22, that would be my first stop.

My earlier comments were in response to the OP's question about the most accurate OTB bolt action .22. I am sure that he meant rifles that are available now OTB.
I am also sure that any number of the manufacturers mentioned in this thread could produce a rifle that is competitive with the high end target rifles. For reasons that you mentioned, though, they do not. Not yet in any case. Maybe never. Maybe sometime.
Pete

PS: I am sure that I would be very pleased with any of the rifles that Cooper sells.

Last edited by PeteD; 03/03/12.

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No you would hate the cooper and sell it to me at a big loss! smile


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Originally Posted by gunchamp
What is the most accurate bolt action 22 lr you can buy out of the box? Not looking to spend cooper money. I've been told the ruger 77/22 or the cz 452. You guys feel that its between those two? Thanks.


CZ 452's are nice, but the real sleeper I found was a Remington 504, I bought several of them a few years ago when they first came out. The thing that will strike you about them is the sheer feeling of quality, the trigger breaks like glass, the bolt face fits into the breech with zero space like a bank vault.

I was getting these at about $400 to $450 and putting Pentax 4.5-14x scopes with range finder reticles (same scope as the Fullfield II. They were absolute tack drivers.

IMO Remington has outdone the 541-S which I also have had three of.

Last edited by 243WSSM; 03/05/12.

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I liked/wanted a 504, but they only lasted 3-4 years (2004-7). That didn't make sense, seemed like a nice rifle for the coin, guess they couldn't compare to the 77/22??


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The most accurate rimfire I ever shot outside of my National Guard smallbore Winchester 52 is my Winchester 320. It was made 1972-74. I literally stole the rifle when I traded a Remington 510 that I had $18 in and $10 boot for the 320. It will cloverleaf bulk Federal ammo at squirrel hunting distances. Of course it should be accurate, it was the forerunner to the Kimber. I still squirrel hunt with it (mostly grays) and make head shots so easy if I do my part.

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One of the coolest rimfires I've played with lately is actually chambered in 22 WMR, a round I had pretty much written off. No more. Guns and ammo have improved considerably. This one is a Savage 93 BRJ. Some specs: 21-in. blued matte spiral-fluted heavy barrel, 1:16 twist, laminate stock, 5-round detachable magazines, trigger pull out of the box is 2 lb, 6 oz. It shoots 3/4 in. groups at 100 yards (if the wind isn't howling) with Rem 33 gr. AccuTip-V.


If you're fixin' to put a hole in something,
make it a hole to remember.
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 11,109
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& by the size of that objective can find space rocks before they collide with the Earth!! smile

Cool looking rifle from this angle.


George
Associate Gypsy
Order of Sleepless Knights

Originally Posted by GOD
... That is when I carried you ...
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Posts: 13,015
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I've got a very accurate Remington 504. My most accurate .22? No, but it doesn't miss the title by much......


I am the way, the truth, and the life: no one comes to the Father but by me. John 14:6
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,162
K
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K
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,162
Originally Posted by avagadro
& by the size of that objective can find space rocks before they collide with the Earth!! smile

Cool looking rifle from this angle.


*laffin*

It's set up specifically for some raccoon calling/sniping I've been working on lately, some of which is in the dim/dark hours.


If you're fixin' to put a hole in something,
make it a hole to remember.
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971
byc Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 33,971
Originally Posted by shreck
Originally Posted by DigitalDan
Mebbe a Remington 513T would do the trick. Only have a sample of one, but it's a bughole shooter. 513S would do the same if not abused in the field in the decades of its existence.


My 513t was good enough to win a state championship.


3rds! or +3...whatever we say!


Proud to be a true Sandlapper!!

Go Nats!!!!


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