Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ask John Barsness Questions About "THE VAGARIES OF RIFLE TROUBLESHOOTING."

Hi Folks:

John Barsness's latest exclusive column, "THE VAGARIES OF RIFLE TROUBLESHOOTING," is on its way to your Inbox. If you haven't received this or previous versions, simply send your email address to rickbin24hourcampfire.com, and request to be on board for future monthly columns.

Here are links to a few select previous columns:

"Scope Height"

"Computer Ballistic Programs"

"Reloading Data"

"Triggers"

"Older Hunters, Smaller Rifles"

"Hunting Scope Magnification"

Don't forget to check out John's (and Eileen's ) other stuff at http://www.riflesandrecipes.com.

Many thanks, as usual, John!

The link is here: http://www.24hourcampfire.com/newsletters/October_2011.html

The article was GREAT John! I've found some of the same wierd problems with rifles in the past.

One of the guys at Bushnell told me once that a lot of scope problems were related to tightening rings too tight but didn't want to be quoted so I won't mention his name.

I've never thought of checking magazines for clearance before so I'll be removing some stocks next time I get the chance.

Thanks for yet another great article!

$bob$

Thanks for the informative column John. Do you have a link to the scope mounting method you refer to in the column,

"Yeah, a few days later he e-mailed, saying he'd loosened the screws on the scope, then tightened 'em again the way I suggested, and the rifle started shooting good groups."

I hadn't heard of tightening rings too tight, will have to check that out in the future when guns act wierd.

Funny that I did have a M700 that would toss flyers left. Eventually I discovered a teeny little chip of metal, stuck on the back of the LH bolt lug

I also had a different rifle toss flyers to the side, until I got rid of my cheap front rest, which appraently had just the right amount of slop in it

Rifles can be funny critters at times

RecoilRob,

The method is pretty simple. Either use a torque screwdriver and don't tighten the ring screws more than 20 inch-pounds, or just hold a regular screwdriver at the top of the handle with your thumb and first two fingers. Very few people can produce more than 20 inch-pounds using that method--and the few that can have to really, really try.

Thanks John,

I have been guilty of tightening rings too much and finally broke down and bought a FAT driver.

Is 20 in/lbs good up to a certain laod range or is good for all rifles, even heavy recoiling ones? Do you line the rings with anything to prevent slippage? I have used rubber cement in the past.


thanks, Rob

I haven't had any trouble keeping scopes in place with 20 inch-pounds, even some pretty heavy scopes on hard-recoiling rifles.

Why would tightening or, in this case as you say over tightening, have anything to do with inaccuracy. I can't make the connection. I know all my scopes are "overtightened" now reading this and so I will go thru them and do the 20 inch pound thing. Any particular pattern you recommend of tightening like in head bolts of a motor? Really interested in why tightening the screws on the rings "about as tight as I can get them" is bad and what it does to create problems with accuracy. Thanks JOHN

If you aren't having any accuracy problems, don't worry about it.

But in a lot of lightweight scopes, over-tightening the rings crushes the scope tube enough to interfere with the scope's innards. I've seen it break reticles, but the usual symptoms are those described in the article: random fliers, often way out and in any direction.

Over-tightening the rings also usually results in noticeably damage to the scope's finish, usually known as ring-marks. This can really affect selling price if you ever decide to send the scope down the road.

Great article John. A few years back I bought a Winchester M70 Featherweight in 7x57 from a friend. He'd kept the scope so I bought a brand new Leupold 3x9 and went to sight the rifle in. Total disaster. My friend had said the rifle was accurate and as I'd bought guns from him before, I knew that if he said it was accurate, then it was. Well this one was not. I had my gunsmith do a trigger job, glass bed and free float the barrel which didn't fix a thing. It still shot all over the place. The only thing I hadn't considered was the scope, after all it was brand new right? Well, I'd bought a 2x7 Leupold planning to put it on another rifle but tried it on the M70 first. Great googamooga! The first group after getting it on paper at 100 yards was .75". I shot several more groups and the largest was still slightly under one inch. My friend hadn't lied. The gun was accurate. I sent the offending scope back to Leupold and very shortly it came back fixed and is working just fine on another rifle. A lesson learned. If all else fails, try another scope.
Paul B.

Good article John. You have probably given shooters ideas they would never have thought of themselves. I have been through the new scope problem numerous times with my friends. Bought 4 new scopes some years ago and two of them were faulty. Sent the two back and have been using them ever since. Never mind what company, as they all have returns.

The internet has left a smudge on the company names because many of the scopes returned are now reported. When the manufacturers leave the quality control to the end user, companies suffer the consequences.

Being able to problem solve is the fun parts about guns.

Thanks, John.

Wondering if temperature changes affect scope ring pressure on the tube.

If the axiom "if it ain't broke . . ." may bite later. Bites from axioms can be painful <G>.
e.g. Nice mild day at range and all is well. Hunting, now 0 deg. Rings now too tight?

Unless - tightened as you do at ca. 20 inch pounds, or thumb and two fingers method.

Is it beneficial to line the rings with one layer of electrical tape? (advice from gunsmith)

--And thanks for (beg pardon if miss-attributed) the account of Mr. K with a lever rifle in .25-35 WCF "whittling away" at a coyote half a mile or more away.

From the steps of the Capitol building in Helena.

My wife and I stood on those steps as I recounted the tale. Got some strange looks from normally polite Montanans.

At least he didn't worry there about scope rings.


Best to you both - JG

John,I just read your latest column and it is so true.
My go to,trouble shooting scope is a Weaver K4W and it has never let me down.
Good Read

AlwaysLearning,

I've never had any problem with scope rings and temperature down to well below zero F. The only time I use electrical tape inside rings is in "emergencies" when a little alignment is necessary, though the tape probably would provent ring-marks among those people who really crank on the screws!

Good idea, as long as the tape is not blue.

Steve

Uh-oh...............

I thought "Farmer tight" was approaching ideal. I have this issue on at least rifle. I'll be re-doing the screws tonight. Thanks!

John, the reference to the magazine box interferring with the bedding of the action reminds me of a very strange happening.

I bought a 527 Varmint in 223. Tried some 40 Vmax and they shot in the .200 at 100 yards. AS much as I tried, I could not get 50, 52 and 55 gr. bullets to shoot under 1 1/2-2".

I started thru my check list and found the magazine box on the composite stocked CZ, was too long. The same situation existed with a friends CZ. Seems that CZ USA imported the BA's here and fitted them to the composite stocks. The composite stocks were too thin top to bottom, thus the magazine box needed material removed. I even talked to their head smith and he told me he knew nothing about the composits stock problems.

Who would think that the 40's would shoot that well and the BA was in such a bind because of the magazine box,

Fred,

Very interesting! I can't imagine why that would happen, but then some rifle mysteries will always be mysteries!

Thanks for the timely article, I'm guilty of overtighting for sure. I will have to rectify that.

Corey