Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Gunsmithing More model 70 problems

A friend/client came to the shop the other day with a brand new Win model 70 FWT in 308. He said it felt like the bolt was ""twisting and jumping out of alignment" when he opened it. After looking at it for a while, I determined that the cocking piece was not rotating far enough for the cocking piece to enter the action slot to engage the trigger. Furthermore, the keeper holding the bolt shroud in place, the retainer, was keeping the shroud from turning any further. There was a problem with the orientation of the three parts and how they were related. I remembered this after reading the thread on the M70 safety not engaging.

I had one of those come into my shop also, about 6-7 months ago. Had to refit the cocking piece to the slot. Wonder how things like that get out of the factory.......

This seems to be more pronounced on the newer M-70's. The tolerance game seems to be the problem. You have ended up with two items (actually, three separate areas) that are at their extremes in tolerance. One too large and the others too small. The bolt shroud (large) is soft and can be welded (TIG) to remove the excess clearance between the firing pin tang and the shroud. Just be careful which side you do the welding on, if only welding one side. I weld both sides of the shroud and then set it up in a fixture and machine to fit the firing pin (tang) assembly. The firing pin "tang' should be about .250" wide and the shroud slot should be about .265" wide. This will remove the excess play and orient the shroud to the right position, so that the safety pin (bolt lock) will work properly. There can be another factor that may come to play in this. That is the bolt cocking ramp and the firing pin cocking tang. These two items could also be at the opposite ends of their tolerance. This is another story, but mainly found on well used rifles, not new ones. Just take care that the safety works properly. There are other concerns that have come up, if the owner has been trying to modify or smooth out the different boly/firing pin components. Those need to be dealt with separately.

There is another issue in the way the bolt handle is aligned and pressed together with the bolt tube and bolt locking lug assembly. This is done in a fixture prior to oven brazing of this assembly. I have never actually seen a misalignment of these pieces, but have heard of such.

As a side note, I'm not a gunsmith, but an engineer who happens to own a precision welding and CNC machine company. i have been experimenting with and reverse engineering the Model 70 for many years, with the idea of making aftermarket replacement and upgrade parts for such. Some day, maybe even a larget and smaller version of the M70 action. I have started a second company for this product line and you should be seeing these products sometine in 2006.

Through the loading dock...

Sorry, had to be said.

Now why it gets out is just as simple an answer:

$$$.

For the major manufacturers, bean counters and profit margin have long ago taken the place of quality, pride, workmanship, and honor.

Sad, but true.

[quote...For the major manufacturers, bean counters and profit margin have long ago taken the place of quality, pride, workmanship, and honor...[/quote]

There is probably some truth to that, but the main reason is that we, the great unwashed mass of gun buyers, are cheap.

Certainly Remington, Winchester, Ruger, et al could craft a fine product if they wanted to. The problem is that it costs money to pay the wages necessary to get the hand fitting that all those older, quality rifles needed. I have two Winchester Custom Shop rifles that are fine in every respect, except they cost about 4 times what the average off the shelf rifle would cost. Even modern CNC machining is not the total answer, someone would still have to take the time to check the finished product and/or make sure the CNC machines were set up and running within spec several times per day.

�Naturally, ALL of US here on this forum would have no problem spending $1000-$1200 for an off the rack Model 70 with a snicker-snack safety and a bolt that glided like silk�, he said with the sarcasm in his voice barely concealed.

It�s just that all those OTHER dumb Bubbas out there, you know, the other 99% of the gun buying public, will look at a $650 Winchester and a $350 Remington 710 and buy the 710. Okay, that�s an exaggeration, but all you guys that work in gun shops � how many Rugers do you sell for each Sako? How many more 710's do you think they'd sell if Savages and Rugers started at $700?

Obviously, gun makers need to make a profit to stay in business, same as Halliburton and same as Mom and Pop�s Grocery. If people would actually pay the money it takes to produce a truly quality firearm we would see tons of them on the market. But people won�t, that�s why Wal-Mart drives every Mom and Pop in the country out of business, and that�s the bottom line on this whole situation.

JII,
You nailed that directly on the head. Living here in MI I made that statement to a group of UAW workers one day and they didn't have a word to say. One of them made a comment on getting something at Wally World and I said;
"So I am to understand that I am supposed to buy the second rate product at a jacked up price that you guys wave your flag over while you go and save a buck at wal-mart on a chinese product" I have not seen many union labels on the items at that store or the "MADE IN USA" label.
I..uh think that TLEE is starting to rub off on me more than I care to admit. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
MCS