Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunting Rifles 300 Win Mag, the ultimate cartridge?

I haven't read the Thread,but have but a single thought based solely upon it's Title.

The 300Winny AIN'T the ultimate...but nuttin' else is either. She'll fill the bill across the course,when fed good boolits and that's more than one can say about alotta chamberings.

Park a 165/68X in something and you'd best both grab a tag.........and a good knife.....................

I must not be reading the same Nosler #5 manual the tech page on the 300mag has to do with the 180gr PP Partition,Spitzer and OAL nothing is said about 200gr or 220 gr that they list in there reloading manaul. Nowhere in either the tech or information written by Bob Robb said anything about the neck on the 300win mag he talk about it and brown bears maybe it not being the best choice. The 300mag is used in LR target shooting with heavy bullets results are posted on www. Benchrest.com and you can find out alot more on the 1000yd forum about the 300mag. Nice thing is when you have something build like the orginal question was asked you can change afew things as to chamber,throating,neck dia and changing headspace I did that when I had my 300mag build no big secret alot of times a gunsmith who shoot the 1000yd matches can set up a 300mag better I think. My next project will be on the 300wby case. Well good luck.

jorge,

My 300winnie while still wearing the factory tube, shot 200 grain partitions better than any other bullet. At approx. 2900 to boot.

I don't care what you are aiming at, that combo would put a hurting on it.

BTW, you're right....the 300 winnie short neck schtick is lame.

Tony

Out of simple curiosity, Savage_99, what's your opinion of the .350 Rem Mag?

(edited to add: Nevermind the .350 RM, the bigger, more important question is: The .300 Savage -- Is it any good or are its "flaws" fatal?)

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I agree with Big Stick on this one.

They are all good.

Dang, 'Stick's back and already killed off a thread.

Well said, and welcome back.

Pumpgun,
I used Gre-Tan Rifles out of Kersey Colorado for rebarreling a M70 and I would most certainly use him again. He will build you a hunting rifle or a competition rifle. I found him reasonable in price for the level of high quality he turns out.
You may want him on your short list or even give him a call, he is very open in sharing his knowledge.

To comment on the old cliche of "if i could only have one rifle"........yes......the .300 Win Mag would be my choice for North American hunting.

This one is mine. I bought it new in 1972 and it still shoots like the day I brought it home. The .300 Winchester Magnum is one cartridge I would never be without. billt.

Sd,
thanks I will keep him in mind. I know Muley Stalker likes him also. tom

I don't think the 300 Winnie is the ultimate cartridge, because there are WAY too many species of stuff we can hunt. Depending on where you live, and what your taste in hunting is, the 300WM is pretty versitile, but a compromise of recoil and economy. The humble old '06 is probably the most versitile cartridge alive today, but it's also a compromise. A true gun loonie is looking for reasons to buy specialty calibers and rifles (even if not justifiable) rather than a one-gun-does it-all approach. To get back on track, if it were my magnum action, I'd go for something odd that's hard to find over the counter (which the 300Win isn't)---------like a 358Norma or 264 Winnie, both of which are better than the 300 for either meat-eating quarry or ultra long range shooting respectively. There are no flies on any of the 300mags, and for the shooter who doesn't mind the recoil, they do offer some advantages not found in the smaller rounds.

TK2

One thing I don't understand about the 300 Win is why they made its case longer than its brothers , 264, 7mm and 338?

Seems like the 338 would require the largest case, not the 300.

Fred Huntington (RCBS) necked down the 338mag case and called it 30-338 mag you can also use the 7mag case since it is just a 338mag necked down to 7mm.

I believe "Big W" felt they could get closer to Weatherby velocities by making the case a bit long and moving the shoulder forward. However, current specs for the .300 Win. is 100 FPS less than than what they originally said they were. IIRC, velocity used to be 3060 FPS and current specs say 2960 FPS. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Were the origunal loads too hot? have they been deliberately downloaded due to liability concerns?
The .300 Win. mag. is just fine the way it is. You don't like the short neck, don't use one. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Someone asked about comparing the recoil of the .300 Win. compared to the .338 Win. mag. I have an almost matched pair of Winchester M70s, one in .300 Win. mag. and the other the .338 Win. mag. Both rifles have 26" barrels and weigh within two ounces of each other, with the .300 being the slightly heavier of the two. Shooting a 200 gr. bullet in both rifles loaded to the max for each rifle, the .338 actually feels like it kicks less, not by much, but less. Once I go to 225 gr. bullets and heavier though, then the .338 does kick more. Both rifles are synthetically stocks and both have Pachmeyr Decelerator pads and I really don't feel recoil is objectionable from either rifle. Of course, YMMV. Both rifles weigh in the vicinity of 8.0 pounds.
Paul B.

"Anybody that brings up the old wife's tale about the 300 Win's "short neck" is automatically disqualified to render any kind of cogent opinion"

- well, it does have a short neck, at least to my way of thinking (I like necks equal to caliber in length) that's why I think the 308 norma is a better design. still, if I had to limit all of my hunting to one rifle it would be the 30-06 (only 'cause I do not like recoil) - if not for that, the 300 whinny would get the nod as the 308 norma ammo is hard to find.

If I did not already have an '06 and 300 wsm, a 300 whinny would be in the safe for sure. with handloads, you can make the whinny do most of what you want it to do.

257Bob, what sucks is I have a 30'06 and I love it. I also have a 338 Win mag, and I like it. Since i have a magnum action I am still up in the air of what to build it into. The 300 just seemed to be the best of the belted mags.

Build a .300 Win. Mag. - it's a GREAT hunting cartridge. Lots of ammo everywhere you go, lots of reloading data, an almost 50 year proven track record in the field and on the target ranges (someone correct me but IIRC the .300 WM has been used extensively and successfully in 1000 yard benchrest matches).

Whether or not it's the "ultimate" - Ultimate, shmultimate, who cares, so what? Either way it's a GREAT hunting round and you will not be disappointed.

While the .300 Winchester Magnum is a very good cartridge it isn't the ultimate cartridge or even the ultimate .30 caliber magnum. It has a few flaws. The neck is to short so that loading the longer, heavier bullets require they be seated deeper into the case than with the .300 Weatherby or even the .30-338(which is what everyone believed Winchester would introduce as their .300 magnum. Personally I believe that the .300 Weatherby is the better cartridge due to it�s ability to use .300 H&H ammo and it�s ability to use/load heavier weight bullets. Actually I place the .300 Winchester Magnum in third place behind second place .308 Normal Magnum. Lawdog
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> [/quote] Do you base your opinion on the information you get over www.greybeard.com since you are one of the moderators on that site. Have you shot a 300mag and what bullets and powder have you used to form your opinion that the 300mag neck is too short? Have you shot a 300wby or 308 Norma Mag and run a velocity and bullet comparison between the 300mag,300wby and 308 Norma mag? Have you shot 300H&H ammo in a 300wby to see what velocity it get to compare against the 300wby ammo? I don't post on greybeard but think you would have alot of data to back up your claim here.
I'm no expert or moderator on another site just a average shooter but I do have alot of data on my 30-338mag,300mag,
300wby,300wsm and 300rum.

The .264 Win mag is an excellent round as is the .300 Win Mag. The .264 Win Mag has long been known to be a barrel burner. However the .300 Win Mag stomps on both ends got to find the common ground. My sugg. would be the .300 Win Mag for the money.

Anyone who contends a particular cartridge is the �ultimate cartridge� is an idiot. �Ultimate� is a highly subjective and rather temporal classification.

You probably couldn�t get three randomly chosen riflemen to agree on just what constitutes the criteria by which the �ultimate� cartridge should be chosen, let alone a majority of hunters and shooters.

Nevertheless, here are a few criteria that should be considered IMHO:

1. Purpose. What is the cartridge to be used for? Many people would consider their rifles in .22LR to be the most indispensable hunting rifle they own. For others a .22 centerfire would take that honor. Most likely, these people would not be living in Alaska or any area where dangerous game or predators exist. Those folks might well prefer a .338 or larger. But I suspect the vast majority of shooters and hunters, given a choice of �one� rifle would choose something between a .243 and .30.

2. Performance. This subject can be further broken down into subcategories, such as caliber, trajectory, momentum and energy delivered at various ranges, bullet selection, recoil, and so on. No way you are going to get people to agree on what �performance� means, let alone what is required.

3. Cost. This includes both the rifle and the cartridge costs as separate items to be considered. The �ultimate� cartridge, IMHO, must be affordable to shoot.

4. Availability. In the context of the �ultimate� cartridge, �It�s a great cartridge if you can get your hands on one� is an oxymoron. International travelers have special problems, but even people hunting within the US can have problems with availability. Although I have never gone on a hunting trip and left my ammo at home, I have gone to the range � twice � and left my ammo at home. If I had done that on a hunting trip I would have simply made a journey to the nearest place that sold ammunition and purchased some. But then my cartridges of choice are rather plebian, so availability is not a problem. The �ultimate� cartridge should have a good variety of ammunition choices available � there should be relatively inexpensive ammunition available for practice, quality and even premium hunting ammunition.

5. Practicality and functionality. Like Performance, this is a wide subject that encompasses a variety of subcategories. One is reliability, in which characteristics as feeding must be considered. If a cartridge has feeding problems due to its design, I would contend it cannot also be the �ultimate� cartridge. Likewise, the �ultimate� cartridge should ideally be designed without useless features such as a �magnum belt�. Since this is a hunting forum, the cartridge itself should have excellent accuracy potential � which doesn�t exclude any cartridges I know of but does exclude some rifles. A cartridge that can deliver a knock-out punch 600 yards down range on a laser-like trajectory may be useful in a limited number of circumstances, but frankly I find any cartridge capable of 400 yards to be more than adequate, as even at 400 yards the wind is often more of a consideration than bullet drop. Besides that, once one has selected a caliber and bullet, there must be a consideration of the additional recoil that goes with flatter trajectories.


In my own little world of Colorado big game hunting, a 7mm Mag with 160g Grand Slams has been, without exception, more than adequate since 1981. This year I have a .300 Win Mag loaded up with 180g North Fork bullets to play with but it can only match, not exceed, the historical efficiency of the 7mm Mag.

The �ultimate� cartridge? Danged if I know.